[BS5711]

The people who hear differences in everything are the people who don’t do careful listening tests.

Precisely right.

 

[Blackwoof]

I think what is amazing is not how good hi res music sounds but how good lossy music is and how good when the file is so much smaller and such a relatively high quantity of information is missing yet we can’t easily distinguish between them.

I love how well LAME MP3 performs even at V2(192kbps VBR) towards AAC/Vorbis, I can't tell V2 from lossless 99% of the time when I do I just up the track to V0. What more ironic they never once cry about games using Vorbis/MP3 for sounds/music, DVD-video lasting 20+ years with AC-3 at 192k stereo and 448k Surround. But when Tidal and Apple switch to lossless streaming suddenly It a night and day difference.

 

[Death_Block]

In my listening experience I've found tidal sounds better than qobuz.

 

[BS5711]

I read of a null test done between Tidal, Qobuz and Apple Music.

With the same masters the differences were outside audibility which makes sense given it is just digital information.

All other factors being equal of course, if they are not equal what is making the difference ?

 

[gregorio]

All other factors being equal of course, if they are not equal what is making the difference ?

Apart from processing by the player software, such as loudness normalisation, EQ or compression/limiting, there’s the potential for the data rate to be stepped down depending on the internet servers and connections, there’s also the potential for the master or distribution copies to be slightly different and of course biases causing perceptual error/placebo is always a real possibility.

G

 

[bigshot]

Amazon rips off of CDs and uses that. Apple Music has specifications for the tracks it uses that labels need to follow. Differences are almost certainly mastering differences. And it varies from track to track. You probably can’t generalize.

 

[Blackwoof]

Also It seems like /r/headphones and /r/audiophile are now attacking anyone who uses Lossy codecs in the most immature manner possible. Posted a thread about MP3 was called a moron for not using lossless or AAC, When I call them out I get left at -4.

 

[bigshot]

In my tests, MP3 LAME 320 VBR is just as transparent as AAC. I don’t know why people don’t do controlled listening tests for themselves. It isn’t that much work.

 

[Ghoostknight]

I don’t know why people don’t do controlled listening tests for themselves. It isn’t that much work.

Is that a joke?
if i would do for everything i changed/test a controlled listening test i would need to test for hours and hours, days for days, beside that i dont feel like i have to question myself
i mean sure, people can question everything they want but the question its wether it makes to everyone sense...

---------------

its one thing to proof someone wrong with some kind of test, its another thing if the other person can actually hear it themself

Also this whole theorizing about things make objectivist way more biased than a audiophile ever could be, just think about it... there is no point in checking someones blind test if this person has no background of hearing any difference what so ever, because in "theory" everything is perfect anyway in their mind

...Also its just silly to go for the lowest "audible" minimum if you can a huge margin above that, basicly free, without even needing to ask the question because either youtube vs flac is a pretty clear case to you or it isnt

my personal unscientific opinion still is -> MP3 < AAC < FLAC
yea maybe AAC 256 is "equivalent" to MP3 320 but this still makes AAC obviously better, less size, better quality... i just tested this recently with a internet radio i was listening to and they offered both AAC256 and MP3 320, tho both get clearly beaten once you go to CD quality

 

[bigshot]

You're thinking about doing a test for all the wrong reasons. It isn't to prove anything to anyone else. It isn't to serve ego so you can lord it over others with your golden ears. It definitely isn't about getting bogged down by OCD. It's to get a ballpark idea of what matters and what doesn't. Without that sense, you're flailing around blindly, and can't efficiently solve the practical problem at hand.

Sure, you can go by what other people tell you. And you can just not make any effort to be efficient at all and throw money or bandwidth at it willy-nilly. Plenty of people do that. But what is there to be learned from that? And how does that help you solve the next problem you run into?

Experimentation along with research leads to understanding. But that takes two things... setting parameters around the problem you are looking to solve, and making an effort to solve it. Too many audiophiles either overcomplicate things and become frozen like a deer in the headlights, or they become intellectually lazy, refusing to raise a finger to find out how things work. I can't help the former until they choose to focus themselves, and I have no respect for the latter.

 

[Ghoostknight]

You're thinking about doing a test for all the wrong reasons. It isn't to prove anything to anyone else. It isn't to serve ego or get bogged down by OCD. It's to get a ballpark idea of what matters and what doesn't. Without that sense, you can't efficiently solve the practical problem at hand.

Sure, you can go by what other people tell you. And you can just not make any effort to be efficient at all and just throw bandwidth at it willy-nilly. Plenty of people do that. But what is there to be learned from that? And how does that help you solve the next problem you run into?

Measurements have definitely their place, as studies and research do or we wouldnt be where we are today and to some degree it helps consumers too, but i dont know, maybe i just have a strange opinion/view of things because what i hear and what i get told or read objective wise just doesnt fit together well

im still in believe that there is a huge discrapency between what people actually hear and what is said to be "audible" by science, IMO this is the biggest flaw i can see with the whole objective vs subjective thing and it would probably explain alot and (with adjusted audible levels) making both partys in end right
Its easy to say its all placebo, but honestly, there are probably more audiophiles than "hardcore objectivists", and i dont believe its all mass-delusion

Is it still silly do go overboard for the minor difference people hear? probably, but the thing with changes is that they actually stack on top of eachother as it seems, so a minor difference here and there is one thing.... but 10 "differences" stacked on top of eachother makes it a "new Hifi"


____

kind of OT but related...

Best example recently for me personally was this... i was in search of a interface, and after many watched reviews and sound comparisons on youtube, i decided to go for the Black Lion Audio 2x2 Revolution, it just has something to it and it actually beats my previous Aune X8 as a dac which was quite surprising too since they basicly cost the same but the BLA has much more to offer...

The german Youtuber "The Soundphile", made a nice comparison
even with some flac files for the different ADC performances https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbkhRbDdtQVU0T3F1UmxZSXE5d2l6aEM3QWtnUXxBQ3Jtc0tuYjFDUDhBWHJ4VzFhM0xPWG40N1pTMWVmMGREeTFuVlU1Y3d5TmREQ1hSUHY5RUNIUXllaFZxd3g2X0NmMXBSb0pWTl93WTNxWXB4UnhoblFscVBSQi1GVG9sb3hUYW9HVEpldTJISEhheGlVNllSRQ&q=http://www.amazingstudio.de/Soundphile/Interfacecheck.zip&v=LExAI6UUTfc

Why does the interface sound apparently the best while measuring the worse? (tho not so worse that anything becomes "audible" by science) and im not alone with this opinion, you can watch some reviews on youtube and find that many prefer the BLA interface

i suspect that the older dac chip and/or overall implemenation makes some of the magic, but i cant proof it of course
Also i did measure this myself and its interesting, beside the higher noisefloor, how clean the DAC/ADC looks distortion wise in the audible band, which i also suspect might play a role in perceived sound

im using linux, so i have some scale issues i still need to resolve somehow
this is dac output routed into adc input, it also gives a completely different picture than what amir's measurements give imo, since amirs measurement actually look "under" the noisefloor as it seems

 

[bigshot]

Nope.

 

[BS5711]

im still in believe that there is a huge discrapency between what people actually hear and what is said to be "audible" by science, IMO this is the biggest flaw i can see with the whole objective vs subjective thing and it would probably explain alot and (with adjusted audible levels) making both partys in end right
Its easy to say its all placebo, but honestly, there are probably more audiophiles than "hardcore objectivists", and i dont believe its all mass-delusion

TLDR the rest, gave up at the above.



That is standard audiophile BS.

Essentially saying “ I hear a difference so it must be true, I trust my ears, if you don’t hear it you are deaf or your gear isn’t sufficiently resolving” and “If your science doesn’t agree with what my ears tell me your science is faulty”.

But they are at the same time unwilling to actually test stuff out to prove to themselves what actually is important in making good sound and what isn’t.

There is an entire consumer audio industry built around exactly this sort of misconception.

Instead of wasting a bunch of time commenting on website forums go and actually test some stuff for yourself, you probably have all that you need to with the help of someone to help do a blind A/B test just plugging into two different amplifiers. Volume match as best you can and go intentionally either side of the same volume to try and counter the effects of slight volume mismatch.

Do it properly with a view to actually understanding not a two minute quick listen in a sighted test then come back and argue that your hearing is indeed beyond scientific understanding.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Instead of wasting a bunch of time commenting on website forums go and actually test some stuff for yourself, you probably have all that you need to with the help of someone to help do a blind A/B test just plugging into two different amplifiers. Volume match as best you can and go intentionally either side of the same volume to try and counter the effects of slight volume mismatch.

the tests i do are enough for me, thanks

Tho since i bought the interface to do comparisons (on youtube) it might be easy to A/B with the recorded files and everyone else is free todo so too later on

probably cant convince most objectivists anyway since even if they hear a difference they will find a reason to invalidate any records... but if anyone is interested, i made a thread over there a while ago https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wou...his-youtube-listening-and-blind-tests.972120/

 

[bigshot]

Is everyone having a good weekend?