[dynhm6]

While a new set of UEs are winging their way to me, I'm toying with the idea of adding a headphone amp/DAC to my 1st-gen iPod (which I just upgraded with a fresh battery and 20gb drive) to optimize the signals being fed into the UEs. Because most of my iPodding is done while motorcycling (I opted for the -32db isolation option on the UEs for this reason), there's no point in going for ultimate quality here. So I'd like to keep the price to <$100. Additionally, the amp/DAC must be slim and small so the pair--iPod and DAC--will fit into one of my pockets. I'm open to considering the use of one of those cables that connect between the iPod's docking connector and the line-in on the amp/DAC if it'll make a difference, though I realize I'll only be able to appreciate subtle improvements when on stationary terra firma.
 
With all this in mind, the NuForce Icon Mobile was recommended by a friend as being a good match for the UEs and my preference for flat/accurate response and transparent sound.
 

 
Are there any other amp/DAC combos that fit the above parameters I should consider?

 

[NewAKGGuy]

I think there are two problems with your proposal here:
 
1.  The DAC will be useless for an iPod/iPhone alone because neither will output a digital signal.  If you buy a Cypher Labs AlgoRythm Solo (http://www.cypherlabs.com/) for about $600 you can pull a digital signal from an iPod and feed it through the internal DAC in the Solo or to the DAC in a portable amp.
 
2.  An amp will only improve your sound quality if you need more power than the amp in your iPod can deliver to drive headphones to an appropriate volume without clipping or the amp in the iPod is of poor enough quality that it colors or distorts the signal more so than the external amp you would use.  I have no doubt that the amp in the iPod is capable of driving UE5Pro to volumes that will be bad for your hearing without clipping.  That leaves the question to whether or not the amp in the NuForce Icon Mobile is appreciably better than the one in the iPod.
 
I own portable 3 amps, 2 of  which I use with my UE TF10s and AKG 702s.  The one I don't use is the NuForce Icon Mobile.  It's not any better sounding than the iPod internal amp.  So while it would be helpful in driving a pair of cans that are too much for he iPod internal amp to drive to reasonable volumes without clipping the (AKG 702s), it doesn't improve the sound quality, and in fact it only drives the AKG 702s a little louder than the internal iPod amp.
 
On the other hand, my iBasso P-3+ and my RSA Hornet are MUCH better than the internal amp in the iPod and let much more of the detail, spacing, and general beauty of the music shine through to my TF10s.  I suspect that you will find the same with the UE5Pro.
 
Bottom line:  If you want better sound quality out of an external amp than that which you can get out of the internal iPod amp, it's not just a question of needing to drive your phones to a higher volume without clipping, and consequently you're going to have to pay up a little to buy an amp that is truly better, not just louder.  I'd recommend that you budget $200 and look for a decent used RSA, iBasso, Pico, Meier, Headstage, TTJV, ALO, etc. 

 

[NewAKGGuy]

There's actually one more problem...
 
The 1G iPod doesn't have a dock.  That means that there is no way to get a signal out of it that is NOT being fed through the internal amplifier.  I might be wrong on that, and there might be a way to get a line out via the firewire cable (and if you're very lucky maybe even a digital signal), but if not then the possible solutions I proposed above are invalid as they rely on being able to attach a Line-Out-Dock to the iPod.
 
Without a true line out, you won't be able to improve on the SQ of the iPod's output, you'll just be able to make it louder, which you won't need with an IEM.

 

[dynhm6]

Thank you for the very thoughtful reply, but I think I may not've been clear in my original post.
Lemme see if I can do a bit better this time 'round...
 
First, I'm not using the 5Pros; I'll be using Reference Monitors (if that makes any difference), which should arrive on Tuesday:

 
Second, I get iPod models confused, so bear with me. I don't think I'm using a "1G" (tho', perhaps, I am???). My iPod's old, but it says 15GB on the back (and I just replaced the original 15GB hard drive with a new 20GB drive), so I kinda doubt it's a 1G:

 
Third, although I don't have a docking station (and never used one), isn't this a docking jack at the bottom, which is where I thought the NuForce Icon Mobile amp connects to bypass the headphone outputs (which are located at the other end of the unit) for improved sound:

 
 
I have to admit to being a bit confused as to whether (and how?) one can bypass my iPod's internal DAC in favour of an external unit like the Icon. The impression I got from some of the reviews is that if you connect the Icon to the iPod's docking jack (as opposed to the headphone output), you bypass the iPod's internal amp/DAC and pass those functions on to the Icon, which has higher quality components. No?
In tandem with this, I thought both (improved quality & increased volume) are what the Icon brings to the table when used with an iPod. Did I get that wrong?
 
Until I receive the IERMs on Tuesday, I won't know whether the iPod's internal amp'll be sufficient to drive them to acceptable volume levels. But I'm not a headbanger and generally have the iPod's volume set to ~1/2~~3/4 when listening with my current phones (Skullcandy Titans (in-ear) or Koss clip-ons (over-ear)). I don't have the specs on either of these, so I can't compare their efficiency to the IERMs, but I'm guessing volume won't be a major issue.
 
I listen to a mixture of jazz, pop and classical (little rap/country) via (mostly) 320kHz .mp3s and prefer a flat frequency response. My primary goal here is simply to feed the IERMs with a better quality signal coming out of the iPod without spending >$100 on additional hardware.
Is there another unit you think would fill my requirements better than the Icon, or am I barking up an empty tree?

 

[NewAKGGuy]

1.  You actually have a 3G iPod, the first with a dock.  Thus, you should be able to use an LOD to get a true analog line-level output from the DAC bypassing the headphone amp.
 
2.  You will not be able to bypass the internal DAC with a battery powered portable solution and obtain a pure digital signal to feed to an external DAC without either a CL AlgoRythm Solo or a Fostex HP-P1 both of which cost a wee bit less than US$600.
 
3.  I don't know how why I assumed that you would be using the UE5Pro!  Obvious brain fart.  But the same likely stands for the Refs in that the internal iPod amp will probably be capable of driving them to more than sufficient volume without clipping.  That being said, these IEMS will be good enough that you will likely hear a significant difference between the internal iPod amp and any of the amps from the manufacturers I suggested or various other higher end portable amps.  You will not likely hear a significant difference between the internal iPod amp and the Icon Mobile.  It just isn't that good an amp, and you don't need the extra power to drive IEMs.
 
I understand that your wallet might be a little sore from laying out $1k on IEMs, but pairing them with a $100 amp doesn't really make a lot of sense.  To do so would be throwing good money to the wind.  I would wait until you can budget 2-3x+ that amount and get an amp that will really improve your SQ.

 

[dynhm6]

 
Quote:

Thus, you should be able to use an LOD to get a true analog line-level output from the DAC bypassing the headphone amp.

I understand that your wallet might be a little sore from laying out $1k on IEMs, but pairing them with a $100 amp doesn't really make a lot of sense.  To do so would be throwing good money to the wind.  I would wait until you can budget 2-3x+ that amount and get an amp that will really improve your SQ.

Good points, all. My hesitancy to spend more on an amp/DAC is due mainly to my primary (though not sole!) usage for the iPod, which is to provide music while I'm motorcycling. Subtle differences between DACs and amps at 60mph will just fade away. Add to that my need to keep all the hardware small and light to fit in my pocket, and the options are limited again.
 
All that said, I'm still stuck feeling like I'd be missing something by not being able to take advantage of that "true analog line-level output" from the iPod, which was my original impetus for considering the Icon. That is, not so much for what the Icon's amp/DAC can do, but more because it affords me the ability to eliminate the iPod's amp, which does get grungy sounding on those occasions when I set the EQ to anything other than flat. Experience tells me that indicates I'm close to the limits of the iPod's internal amp. So is there nothing to be gained from the Icon when looking at it as nothing more than a way to bypass the iPod's amp and headphone circuitry? Does that make sense?

 

[NewAKGGuy]

IMO, nothing to be gained, but let it be said that I have not used a 3G iPod as it is one of the few that I have not owned.
 
I suspect that a good portion of the grunge you are hearing from the iPod may be due to the use of the EQ itself, even in flat settings.  In my experience EQs always degrade SQ, and the Apple EQ is particularly poor.  You should also disable Sound Check for the best SQ.
 

 

[singha]

You're getting no responses cause this should be in the portable amp section You do not have a need for a DAC so just buy a portable amp. It seems like you do not care about sound quality at all and just need more power so just get an E11 cause its as slim as you'll get. If you simply want more volume for your bike rides, you could just settle for an E5 or upgrade your player to one with more power S:flo. If you're worried about the ipods headphone out, then get a line out. 
 
 

 

[dynhm6]

 
Quote:

I suspect that a good portion of the grunge you are hearing from the iPod may be due to the use of the EQ itself, even in flat settings.  In my experience EQs always degrade SQ, and the Apple EQ is particularly poor.  You should also disable Sound Check for the best SQ.
 

Agreed, on both counts. Unfortunately, however, due to their varying volume, it's virtually impossible to not use the Sound Check on mp3s. I've got way too many of them to have to go back and readjust volume levels with Cool Edit or some other sound editor. I generally leave EQ OFF, but I do occasionally use it to gage the response levels in some recordings. And enabling it nearly always causes the music to sound as if the amp's starting to clip (that grungy sound I was referring to). Although it goes away as soon as I switch the EQ OFF, I have the vague suspicion that the iPod's amp's the limiting factor.
 

 
Quote:

You're getting no responses cause this should be in the portable amp section You do not have a need for a DAC so just buy a portable amp. It seems like you do not care about sound quality at all and just need more power so just get an E11 cause its as slim as you'll get. If you simply want more volume for your bike rides, you could just settle for an E5 or upgrade your player to one with more power S:flo. If you're worried about the ipods headphone out, then get a line out. 

I'm sorry, but I think you may've misunderstood my original post. Sound quality IS what I'm concerned with. But, because of my primary usage, I can't rationalize spending alot money.

 

[singha]

Either way, there is nothing to be gained from the DAC portion of the Icon Mobile since your Ipod will be not using the DAC function. You should just look into a pure portable amp and there are several choices in your price range that will be better than the amping capability of the icon mobile.
 
Quote:

I'm sorry, but I think you may've misunderstood my original post. Sound quality IS what I'm concerned with. But, because of my primary usage, I can't rationalize spending alot money.