[Nightfall]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james__bean I'm one of those people that likes to reserve judgement until all the facts come out. But from what I've heard so far, it seems pretty clear to me that the French media is out to ruin Armstrong's reputation. Even if the accusations were true, the way the French media went about this is all wrong. From what Armstrong has said, Tour organizers have given him numerous tests, some of which other participants were not forced to take. They've continually put out these rumors of steroid use. Now, they have this latest accusation of steriod use with supposed proof of it. However the lab that did the testing will not confirm it. I'm all for reporting the truth, but for all we know, it could be someone else who tested positive and this paper is just saying its Armstrong. We're forced to take the word of the French media who have been against Armstong for years. Then you have the fact that only 6 of the 19 tests he supposedly took came out positive. The drug that was positively match is suppose to stay in someone's system for months. So all of the cases should have matched. Then you have the fact that they only have the B samples of the two samples provided for all 19 of those cases. So even if all of this was true, Armstrong apparently can't be punished for anything without both samples. So despite the fact that Armstrong will not be punished and the accusation cannot be confirmed by anyone reliable, they still released this story. Sounds like we should be reading this in some tabloid. Despite all of this, the head guy at the tour still blasts Armstrong over allegations that cannot be proven at this time. These people are absolutely shameful.

My compliments too. You saved me a great deal of typing with your well thought out commentary. Honestly, believing ANYTHING that the French say negatively about Lance Armstrong is about as logical as believing anything negative the Palestinian's say about the Israeli's! The French absolutely HATE to see anyone dominating the Tour in this way that isnt French, much less, someone from an already despised country like the US.

 

[Nightfall]

As an additional note, during the broadcast of the Tour this year, the commentators made note of the fact that prior to this years race, Lance himself pesonally donated a very large sum, I believe it was something on the order of $250,000.00, to allow for improved drug testing of the riders. Yeah, sure, someone who has been cheating does THAT!


JC

 

[spaceman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfall As an additional note, during the broadcast of the Tour this year, the commentators made note of the fact that prior to this years race, Lance himself pesonally donated a very large sum, I believe it was something on the order of $250,000.00, to allow for improved drug testing of the riders. Yeah, sure, someone who has been cheating does THAT! JC

The French have been on his ass since day 1, and will not stop until they get "their" confession. Give 'em hell Lance!!!

 

[sdgserv]

perhaps the greatest athelete of modern times

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

There's no doubt in my mind that the French media is attempting to smear Lance Armstrong's name.

However, that does not negate the fact that he tested positive for EPO by an independent lab.

It is widely acknowledged that doping is prevalent among the cyclists, especially with something like EPO, an agent that provides enormous performance benefits and was undetectable.

It is very difficult to compete in cycling without light doping of EPO or a naturally high red blood cell count (hence training at high altitudes).

Examining the evidence, I don't think it's all that implausible that Armstrong might have used EPO...I mean, everyone does it/did it at one point. That's just the way the professional cycling community is.

At least EPO isn't as dangerous as steroids...I think we ought to be more concerned about people's health than trivial records.

-Matt

 

[DLeeWebb]

Could it be true? I just heard a report on the news that after all of the recent controversy from the French press, Lance may be reconsidering his retirement. C'mon Lance go for eight!

 

[Bleed]

I just read the news as well tonight, and I wish he'll come back for an eight title just to piss the French some more

.

 

[daycart1]

Now it looks like he's engaged--part of the retirement plan, I guess.

 

[pigmode]

I'd be suprised if he did not use EPO right to the end. It doesn't make any difference--his accomplisments are not diminished because the use of EPO is the status quo in the peloton, test or no test. His association with Dr. Michele Ferarri is most damning. Of course none of this is definitive so we are all free to draw our own conclusions.

There is evidence in the form of testimony from team staff and a fellow a team member that he did indeed use. Part of the atmosphere of the witch hunt is LA's lack of class. The incident where he attacked Simeoni, and was witnessed displaying a zip-the-lip gesture when back in the pack was most unfortunate and not very respectable behavior for a great tour winner. A true champion should be above such petty behavior. In my book he is a winner, not a champion.

The French are...a difficult people in our perceptions. They are however, very discriminating of their Tour, and have heaped up lots of derision on their own French two time winner, Laurent Fignon. Fignon did not display the "class" that the French and other Euros expect in a champion.

 

[Nightfall]

There is evidence in the form of testimony from team staff and a fellow a team member that he did indeed use.

I recently heard this commented on somewhere else. Could you tell me which team member made the comment,what it was, and what the testimony was by team staff?


JC

 

[pigmode]

There is evidence in the form of testimony from team staff and a fellow a team member that he did indeed use. Quote:

I recently heard this commented on somewhere else. Could you tell me which team member made the comment,what it was, and what the testimony was by team staff? JC

This goes back to the Motorola squad. It was rider Stephen Swart. He describes a top level rider discussion (more or less led by LA) where it was "agreed" that each would self-administer in prep for the Tour. The other testimonies are from 2 staff members. One overheard what is described as confidential hematocrit test results. The trick was to not to exceed arbitrary levels such as what happened to Pantani. Another member describes picking up dope, and disposing syringes for LA. The book is "LA Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong".

I have not, and do not intend to read it. I just do not care. Until there are definitive tests and at such time that Pro cycling cleans up its act, I do not condemn nor do I look down upon the the victories of any pro that uses.

 

[papy]

i just wanted to put my 2 cents in the debate, for what is worth. I am French, and although i have been in the UK for 5 years i still keep daily in touch with news, sports, etc over there...so just to offer you a view form the other side

"L'Equipe" is not a sensationalism tabloid newspaper, very far from it, it is even one of the most respected sports paper over there...usually, when something crops in their pages, that is accurate or close enough to the truth to justify the printing of it (no smoke without fire, they say). Their editors have their views like any other papers, but usually the background of their info is fairly accurate.

However much controversy they want to spin on a news item (which paper doesn't ?), I believe that it's too big a story for them to treat it lightly and on unfounded elements.

I'll admit though that they, in the past, have made some witch hunt on some specific ppl, lastly with the french football team manager in 97-98, but they got such a backlash for their behaviour at the time that i doubt they would go down that road again ...even for Lance Armstrong...

however true the info is, i am as much dubious as you, as to why that only crops up after his retirement and not whilst in activity...but i think it is more to the UCI and the Tour organisers to put their house in order cos there are still too many doubts on drug taking in cycling and caught up riders in today's competitions to consider any past or current results as "cleanly" valid...Bear in mind that L'Equipe has condemned drug-taking cyclists, even more so for the french ones....Lance Armstrong being Lance Armstrong doesn't make any odds...they were as unforgiving for Pantani or Virenque and co....

As for Lance armstrong himself : the alleged drug taking issue aside, he is a great rider, but he is ONLY a Tour rider... he prepared for the Tour only and won it 7 times..credit to the guy, but bear in mind the lack of REAL opposition he was facing... Most french people would also diss him because, in his "second career" he only took part to the Tour and he was never seen in any one-day classics which are also very importantly viewed in Europe.... he can come back for as many Tours as he wants (to pi$$ the french off, he allegedly said LOL - what a nice communicaton plan if he does come back!!!) he'll still be regarded at a lesser level than Hinault, Merck or the likes for this reason. God knows if those riders were "clean" in their time anyway, but regardless, they were looked on as having panache in their riding and during a whole season. that's all that matters from the french point of view, whatever nationality the rider is...

I'd like to think that Lance armstrong is clean, cos his achievements should have the credit they deserve, but the cycling arena is in such a mess, that i can't help but doubt anyway.

Papy