Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)
Oct 12, 2014 at 7:26 PM Post #1,621 of 6,500
My Beresford Caiman Mkii showed up.  Burning it in now....








Stan was great with all my questions and the Caiman was packed very well.  Arrived in less than a week.  Looking forward to get to know it.  Very early but I like the synergy between the Caiman, the Woo (as an amp) and the HD 650's.  Initially it sounds to be an improvement over the DAC built into the Woo WA7 but it's really early.


HS


Please keep us posted!
I'm thinking about getting a Caiman MK II myself.
 
Oct 15, 2014 at 5:03 AM Post #1,624 of 6,500
I'm curious - how much time have you actually spent with the Hugo in your system ? I've only heard two DACs that I would consider 'above average' - Weiss DAC202 via Firewire and the Hugo via coax. It's interesting that people who've never heard the Weiss immediately zero in on the unfortunate 'smiley face' then focus on the sticker - most have clearly never even heard it. If I could afford that DAC, I'd buy it in a heartbeat - regardless of purrin's opinion of the architecture - but I can't afford a ~7k DAC so I ended up with the Hugo. I have my own issues with the casework, but to dismiss it based purely on the aesthetics and a couple of unhappy campers is shortsighted IMO. I disagree with the designer on a couple of points but at the end of the day Chord shipped the product they believed best represented their quirky approach to something many of us take far too seriously. 

As for your dismissal of the Berkeley based purely on it's sticker price, is there any chance that you could actually audition the DAC prior to giving us your opinion ? I have no problem with the law of diminishing returns, but I do have a problem with people making broad-brush statements with no firsthand experience of a given product. Connaker has made no secret of his feelings for the Berkeley Audio Design product line, but he previously conceded that his Alpha had been toppled by the DAC202 - it would seem that BAD had to dip into the 'cost-no-object' bin to put themselves back on his top shelf. 

Unlike purrin and a couple of others here (project86 seems to have moved to the big leagues), most of us dont have the luxury of being able to listen to a slew of high-end source/amp/headphone combinations, but sooner or later we all have to make a purchase decision and I dont regret buying the Hugo, Schiit will sell truckloads of Yggdrasil based on nothing more than the spec sheet and the buildup here, whether the price is above or below 2K - this DAC is aimed well above anything they've sold previously and well beyond any of their obvious competitors. If your statement re audible differences held true, threads like this would have no value whatsoever - surely we would all just buy the ODAC and call it a day ? 

Looking forward to your feedback, 




I think there are major differences in sound between dacs imo. I have heard the sabre dac which sound completely different from Arcam irDAC and PS Audio PWD MK2, Lampi Big 7 which sound different as well. It can very well be the ones that do not hear much difference from DACS have lesser transparent Int. Amps/speakers or system setup in general.

In my 2 channel setup, DACS brought big difference to sound coming out of my speakers. The PWD MK2 (not the upgrade from mk1 but orig. Mk2s) and the OPPO 105 sabre dac was the worst (oh sabre dac nightmare) perfectly unsuitable for music, but for HT, it might not suck as much if you are not into soundtracks. Still, the PRAT is what gets me the most about oppo implementation of sabre dac. It's horrible.

Arcam irDAC is a damn good dac for the price IMO and i would recommend it to anyonr..but I also haven't heard schitt dacs at the price point purrin mentioned on this thread so can't really compare.

But honestly, if I had PWD mk2 or oppo 105 in front of me, regardless of price, I'd go for the Arcam irDAC.

Lampi Big 7 is in another league though. First of all, it's away from solid state, stepping into tubes. So the sound is different from the foundation, many owners of lampis reviewers sound like they had a damn revelation or something listening to lampis, and I can kind of see why. Especially if you are coming from solid state. It's clean for tubes, with good soundstage and very very musical and involving. When I came out of lampis room at the Newport Beach show after about 15 minutes of listening, I got that feeling you get when you goto a theatre and watch a really engaging movie for 2 hours in the dark and step out, the normal outside world seems a little tiny bit surreal. A head change. I guess this is what the Lampi owners mean when they say it's revelatory LOL.

Chord Qutehd is full and balanced as well, but I like the Chord Hugo better. It's more transparent, have better tone, and is more delicate sounding. Or should I say more articulate? Anyway, it sounds more high end. More intimate. Bass is a little thin, but I think it was a compromise rob watts the designer made to give it such a big soundstage depth and air. A good DAC.

Now, with all these different sound signatures of dacs, I can tell right away the difference. Maybe it's the amp that I played on and speakers that is transparent that it's so revealing, but I do and can tell a difference. To a point where it would brake my system and get me cranky.

So I disagree with the original post saying after 500.00 price point of dacs, they all sound the same. They hardly do.
 
Oct 15, 2014 at 7:32 AM Post #1,625 of 6,500
  Here are my Yulong DA8 thoughts. Some similarities to what purrin found:

- Surprisingly not grating on the ears, not lean sounding. If anything, a touch warm and thick.
- Bass and low-mids have a nice sense of body to them, but, OTOH, are a bit muddy and could use some more kick down low.
- Treble isn't hyper-detailed or sharp. Actually fairly smooth and easy to listen to, IMO, but I do sense a bit of treble thinness.
- Some treble details get kinda lost. Not the most resolving DAC I've heard. Some treble details are brought to the forefront when they shouldn't be.
- Soundstage is kinda small and intimate. Not a great sense of depth and layering or air. Related to some of the treble details being brought forward and some being left behind.
- Kind of dynamically grey sounding. Just not the most lively DAC I've ever heard. But at least it's pretty easy to listen to.
- I have a very hard time telling between the two filters. There is a bit of difference between slow + no jitter reduction compared to fast + jitter reduction on, but I've heard DACs where different filters are noticeably different sounding. Fast + jitter reduction might be a bit cleaner and more detailed sounding, maybe a touch more kick down low, maybe not. Honestly was hard for me to tell, so I wouldn't trust my thoughts on that.

Not bad, enjoyable, fairly easy to listen to. Just quite too expensive for what you get. I didn't try the headphone amp on it yet, but I don't expect that to change my opinion on the overall value.

Pretty much reflecting my thoughts as well.
I think the overall package is decent for low-z headphones. The amp made me re-value RE400, for example. 
Althought i wasn't impressed by it paired with HD800.
 
Oct 15, 2014 at 7:37 AM Post #1,626 of 6,500
Purrin,
 
May I ask what do you think about these DACs?
-Arcam irDAC
-Audiolab M-DAC
-Rotel RDD-1580
 
Oct 15, 2014 at 11:30 AM Post #1,627 of 6,500
Purrin- or anyone for that matter... Have you listened to the Benchmark Dac2 HGC? What are your thoughts? I recently picked one up and find it to be excellent. I'm surprised no one really talks about it here at head-fi, and am wondering if there is a reason or something I'm missing.

Thanks!
 
Oct 15, 2014 at 11:47 AM Post #1,628 of 6,500
Purrin- or anyone for that matter... Have you listened to the Benchmark Dac2 HGC? What are your thoughts? I recently picked one up and find it to be excellent. I'm surprised no one really talks about it here at head-fi, and am wondering if there is a reason or something I'm missing.

Thanks!

I think a lot of people's impressions are it has very impressive specs on paper but ultimately isn't very involving or "musical" in timbre. I haven't heard it myself but I'm sure someone will pipe up.
 
Oct 15, 2014 at 11:57 AM Post #1,629 of 6,500
I think a lot of people's impressions are it has very impressive specs on paper but ultimately isn't very involving or "musical" in timbre. I haven't heard it myself but I'm sure someone will pipe up.


I could see that. In my experience over the past few weeks, I have come to realize the benchmark plays the music as is, albeit extremely clean, it does not color the sound in anyway. Whereas other dacs I have heard can tend to influence the source material with there own sound, I.e warm, bass heavy, dark, etc. I suppose that is why I am enjoying the benchmark as I want to hear the source material as is.l
 
Oct 23, 2014 at 11:08 PM Post #1,631 of 6,500
I realise that this thread is not about digital transport, but I like to know more about your opinion of the PS Audio Perfectwave Transport. I am interested in this transport as it works differently than other CD players by first extracting music from the CD, then storing to an internal memory and playing from the memory instead of the disc, thus potentially can be used as a music server without the need of a PC.
 
It appears to me that you do not have a high opinion of the PS Audio Perfectwave Transport when you wrote that "...the Perfectwave Transport via i2s isn't all that great. Actually it's incredibly average sounding in our comparison of five separate transports". Did you find the transport to sound pretty average only when it is used via i2s, or just plain average every other way?
 
Oct 24, 2014 at 12:17 AM Post #1,632 of 6,500
I realise that this thread is not about digital transport, but I like to know more about your opinion of the PS Audio Perfectwave Transport. I am interested in this transport as it works differently than other CD players by first extracting music from the CD, then storing to an internal memory and playing from the memory instead of the disc, thus potentially can be used as a music server without the need of a PC.

It appears to me that you do not have a high opinion of the PS Audio Perfectwave Transport when you wrote that "...the Perfectwave Transport via i2s isn't all that great. Actually it's incredibly average sounding in our comparison of five separate transports". Did you find the transport to sound pretty average only when it is used via i2s, or just plain average every other way?

That is a real good idea, I would love the folk at Schiit to implement some type of cd transport system. That could extract information and put it to a,mediums, which could range from a internal hard drive to a new 8 track/ digital tape format.
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 12:35 AM Post #1,633 of 6,500
  I realise that this thread is not about digital transport, but I like to know more about your opinion of the PS Audio Perfectwave Transport. I am interested in this transport as it works differently than other CD players by first extracting music from the CD, then storing to an internal memory and playing from the memory instead of the disc, thus potentially can be used as a music server without the need of a PC.
 
It appears to me that you do not have a high opinion of the PS Audio Perfectwave Transport when you wrote that "...the Perfectwave Transport via i2s isn't all that great. Actually it's incredibly average sounding in our comparison of five separate transports". Did you find the transport to sound pretty average only when it is used via i2s, or just plain average every other way?

 
PWT was used with i2s. It was in the middle of the pack with a bunch of other transports tested. A vintage Denon (Anax's - I can't recall model #), and a Marantz CD5004 (light mods) beat it using SPDIF. This all to a PWD1 upgraded to 2. Keep in mind that the PWT with its "digital lens" worked more ideally with the PWD1. The PWD2 included in the digital lens (or FIFO buffer) via NativeX, hence the PWD1 buffer was redundant.
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 10:34 AM Post #1,634 of 6,500
hello there :)
 
i hope to ask if an integrated tube amp should be matched with a tube dac?
i currently use the jds labs standalone odac with an arcam alpha 5 integrated amp.
however, i have plans to switch to a tube amp later part of the year.
 
thank you!
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 10:53 AM Post #1,635 of 6,500
PWT was used with i2s. It was in the middle of the pack with a bunch of other transports tested. A vintage Denon (Anax's - I can't recall model #), and a Marantz CD5004 (light mods) beat it using SPDIF. This all to a PWD1 upgraded to 2. Keep in mind that the PWT with its "digital lens" worked more ideally with the PWD1. The PWD2 included in the digital lens (or FIFO buffer) via NativeX, hence the PWD1 buffer was redundant.


What is NativeX? Also is there any literature on the filters?
I just got a used PWD MkII friday.
 

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