thomas: Koss?
Oct 19, 2001 at 8:59 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16
thomas,

You're one of the few here who uses a higher-end Koss as his primary 'phones. Can you tell me (us) more about them? How you'd characterize them versus other 'phones you've heard?

I still can't believe my KSC-50's cost only $15.00, as, to my ears, they sound far better than any $15.00 'phones should be allowed to. So the higher end Koss 'phones have now become more interesting to me, if only to learn more about them.

Of course, anyone here who uses (or has used) these higher end Koss 'phones, please feel free to also comment.

Thanks in advance.
 
Oct 19, 2001 at 11:43 PM Post #2 of 16
Well, until that happens...
The one Koss headphones that I always wanted to know more about are the A-250.

Here's are some web reviews to get us all started :

http://members.aol.com/headphone2/kossa250.htm

http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/p...hem-pre2l.html

http://www.edielayland.com/vibrato.htm

It's kinda funny to read non-pro non-audioplhile reviews :

http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/H...ct_12003.shtml

http://ecoustics.epinions.com/elec_A..._redir_att__~1

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...919418-8980915


Best price I found, and free shipping! :

http://www.4headphones.com/KOSS/Full_Size/A250.html
 
Oct 20, 2001 at 12:16 AM Post #3 of 16
Thats the one thomas uses...

I believe he said something along the line of... the Koss A/250:

Poor midrange, weak highs, nonexistant bass, poor details, horrible timbre, awful dynamics... but the best soundstage and imaging in existance....

Or I may have totally screwed that up
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Oct 20, 2001 at 5:01 PM Post #4 of 16
Quote:

I was looking for a pair of high end headphones that I could wear during my day at work. Obviously, the main requirement was to keep all the music to myself. These headphones have great sound, HOWEVER it has speakers on the outside too! These speakers are not terribly loud on the outside, but are definitely not fit for situations in which you don't want others to be disturbed by your music. I didn't see any mention of this in the specifications, so you should definitely take this into account before you make a purchase.



Do I need to say anything else?


I wonder what he would think of my HD600s. They are portable speakers that go around your neck!
 
Oct 20, 2001 at 7:21 PM Post #5 of 16
Hey

My Koss's are the A/200's, which have been discontinued, and have virtually disappeared
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I picked them up for only $50 when they were discontinued....

They look quite similar to the A/250's and ESP950- They have the same plastic earcup + metal grill construction, with a padded steel headband. they also use the smame 4 individually insulated cord and insulated chord However, the earcups on the A/200 are smaller (mine are the same size as the HD600), and have cloth covered earpads instead of pleather.

Overall, the construction is quite good, similar to the HD580s in design, but not quite as high quality. the plastic is a bit cheap, but gets the job done... THe chord is the best of any headphone i have, not overly thick and stiff like Grados, not flimsy like the Senns...Its basically two sportapro chords running side by side, like a ribbon cable.
(btw, the one in my avatar is the 250, i couldn't find a pic of the 200)

Quote:

. These headphones have great sound, HOWEVER it has speakers on the outside too! These speakers are not terribly loud on the outside,


The a/200s are basically open air, with their metal grills, but there is a piece of felt under the grill, as well as a lot of dense foam that fills up most of the earcup away from the driver. Sound does escape, but not as much as Senns or Grados. (in comparason, the Senn earcup is totally hollow, with no resonance absorbing foam anywhere)

However, some people that have heard both the 250 and 200 say they sound quite different, i;ve heard that the 250s are muddy, which would be totally opposite of the 200's...


Anyways, to the sound...

THese headphones are the most detailed headphones i've ever listened to. (the most expensive i've heard are the HD600 and RS-2) They resolve a lot of detail in instruments, classical instuments sound much more realistic than my Grados (SR80) or Senns. Particularly impressive is the bass, which extends very DEEP, yet is not exagerated and still very tight, controlled and detailed. Also impressive is the treble- on good recordings it is incredibly clear, detailed and airy. THe soundstage is also the best of any headphone i've heard, if you close your eyes, the instruments sound clearly in front of you, an effect i have not found in any other headphone. You can clearly hear the size of the room, the position of instruments, layers of instruments, etc.

Overall, the diapham sounds as if it is very fast, effortlessly resolving details.

However, this headphone has many problems, which is why it is such a love-it or hate it type of headphone; i'd say about a dozen headwizers jumped on the deal when it was first announced a year and a half ago, but most have gotten rid of them.

The same detailed treble can quickly get annoying, as it makes the headphones very bright. It does not gently roll off the upper octave like my Grados and Senns, in fact, it may even boost them. So for the majority of my CDs, which are poorly recorded, the bright treble becomes shrill-sounding, and very sibilant. Also, the midrange is slightly recessed, and lacks the warmth of Senns and Grado. The source equipement is also very important, if you use it with a noisy or bright source, it will be painful. I think a high quality tube amp would work well with them...

Without a warm midrange, and with its highly detailed sound, the A/200's do sound very "analytical".

All of this makes it usless for most rock recordings, which have nasty treble and need a good midrange. (although Green Day Dookie really sounds impressive through them because of how well they resolve the fast drum line, and Soundgarden's Cds are mostly warm/well recorded). I mainly use the A/200's for classical and electronica, where the accuracy and detail is most important.

Quote:

You're one of the few here who uses a higher-end Koss as his primary 'phones


well, not exactly
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While i find the a/200's have a lot of potential, they are a bit too bright for everyday listening. Usually, i use my HD-600s, which while it isn't quite as good in terms of detail, bass, treble, it has a much more "musical" and balanced sound. I rarely get time to listen to music only, i usually listen while doing homework, where the hyper-detailed sound can be distracting
frown.gif


BTW, about your initial comment on the KSC-35's, the surprising thing i discovered when i opened up my A/200s is that inside the large earcup is an idential-looking 40mm driver. It uses the exact same driver housing, and even has the little joint to snap into the KSC housing. MY R-80's, also use the same driver, which makes me believe Koss uses a similar approach to Grado. They use the same basic driver and modify it slightly/use different enclosures for the different headphones. The a/200 drivers look shiny and metallic, while the KSC (sportapro) driver is more dull... Nevertheless, the drivers sound very different, with the A/200's simply being a lot faster. But the overall freq response is quite similar, though the a/200's seem to avoid a boomy/exagerated bass by positioning the drivers much farther away from the ear...
 
Oct 20, 2001 at 7:54 PM Post #6 of 16
Is there anyway you can try the 250 so that you could compare the two, as you know how people hear things very different from each other. Thanks for your review, BTW.

Quote:

Do I need to say anything else?


I told you they were fun to read
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I would hate to he what that poor guy thinks of Grados, or ever worse, the leakage king the AKG 501, which makes Grados sound like closed phones they leak so much!
 
Oct 20, 2001 at 11:23 PM Post #8 of 16
If the Pro4/AAs weren't so freaking uncomfortable I'd say they were as good a deal as the MDR-V6s.

Koss=good affordable sound but HORRIBLY uncomfortable. Don't complain about Grados if you haven't used these
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Oct 21, 2001 at 12:47 AM Post #9 of 16
If I could buy the original Pro4/AAs with the liquid earcushions I would snap some up for monitoring cans. They isolate better than the 7506s
 
Oct 21, 2001 at 4:06 AM Post #10 of 16
Huh, the AGK K501's leaking more than Grado's? When I had the K501's, they leaked so little it almost seemed like they were closed.
 
Oct 21, 2001 at 4:30 AM Post #11 of 16
Quote:

Huh, the AGK K501's leaking more than Grado's? When I had the K501's, they leaked so little it almost seemed like they were closed.


Serious? What vol were you listening them to at, 1?

They are famous for their extreme leakage, way, way more than Grados by a whole lot. This is not a fault, I couldn't care less about leakage or anything.
 
Oct 21, 2001 at 4:59 PM Post #12 of 16
Quote:

Originally posted by Possum
Huh, the AGK K501's leaking more than Grado's? When I had the K501's, they leaked so little it almost seemed like they were closed.


The AKG 401/501s and the Grados are completely open back cans. How can you say they "leak?" Hey man, my screen door leaks too. So does the sieve in the kitchen. How can you call either of them "leaky?" That's what they're supposed to do by design. I would be really ticked off if my screen door didn't "leak."
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Oct 21, 2001 at 6:32 PM Post #13 of 16
Quote:

If the Pro4/AAs weren't so freaking uncomfortable I'd say they were as good a deal as the MDR-V6s.


Yep, but Koss and all other headphone manufacturers have come a LONG way from the '70s...Although i haven't heard them i'm sure its safe to say new Koss cans are nothing like the Pro 4/AAs, for better or worse...

Quote:

Is there anyway you can try the 250 so that you could compare the two, as you know how people hear things very different from each other. Thanks for your review, BTW.


Unfortunately, i don't know of any retailers that keep high-end koss's in stock. Koss isn't an audiophile name, and you'll never find it in high-end stores that would normally let you audition before you buy (I'm sure there are people out there who thing "high-end Koss is an oxymoron
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) And at $150 list, they are too expensive for mass-market stores. I've seen them available on special order through radioshack, but i doubt they'd let you listen.

Vertigo 1 once owned the Koss A/250, but he bought them when they first came out for $250. He thought they were overpriced, and returned them. (though he did find the treble resembed the Stax sound). But now that they're only about $80, they are probably a much better deal...
 
Oct 21, 2001 at 9:47 PM Post #14 of 16
Well, the treble resembled the Stax Lambdas in that it had that scratchy, shrill tone to it.
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The A-250 was a fine headphone really, quite worthy of hanging out with the $150 bracket...I tried a pair from Circuit City and they sounded quite nice, just that seeing those online prices of $80 made me end up returning it. I had originally intended to repurchase a pair, but then never got around to it. They certainly were not dark sounding from what I heard. For $80, you have a serious competitor, if not a better one, than the typical Grado SR-80/Sony V6/Sennheiser HD-495 recommendations...certainly a much more comfortable one if anything.

I really wish I could have nabbed some A-200s though, velour type circumaurals are where it's at.
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Oct 21, 2001 at 9:57 PM Post #15 of 16
I was also a Koss A200 owner, and pretty much agree with Thomas's opinions of the phones. Back then I preferred my MS-1, but that was before I could really evaluate headphones for all their merits besides being really fun and exciting like the MS-1 can be.

From memory however, I can definitely see where I would want to have another listen. I don't have the pair anymore....ummm I kinda like broke em and eventually threw parts away and I doubt Koss would gimme their life-time warranty guarantee based on packing, or at most some earpads, headband, and maybe a koss cord LOL!

Honestly my memory of their sonic signature would be similar to the DT931 in some regards...but anything more detailed as far as comparisons I wouldn't be able to say.

BTW these are decently rugged phones, I was just a bit too experimental with them back then. The build quality isn't exactly the best, I'd put the AKG401/501 above it for example. But it rates better than low-end Grado. The earcup tilting plastic strain relief is not the best design however.
 

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