[anoobis]

Okay, I think I finally know what I'm looking for. My questions may be too specific but here's hoping. I apologise for any repetition across threads (I'm trying to pull it all together).

I'm looking for neutrality, clarity and detail in a source. I decided to start looking at CD players again for two reasons: i) they can generally be auditioned; ii) I started to think that a one box solution might improve SQ and be better value.

I managed to listen to an Arcam CD73 and like that sort of tone. The CD player I'm looking at buying is the Onkyo DX7555, currently available for £200. However, for it to be a worthwhile purchase (for me), it needs to be significantly better than the other £200-300 CD players currently available, and better than the Arcam, and way above my 1990s Discman. Some people say the Marantz CD5001 is as good, if not better than the Onkyo. That would indicate it's not that special for the money (it's been a £400 player, remember).

Moving on to DACs, my contender would be the Audio-gd DAC19Mk3 (is it even still available?). That's going to be around £300. Simple question here is, is this DAC going to best the above CD players? Is there another DAC you know (by direct comparison) that's better than the CD players in the same £200-300 bracket? The DACMagic and V-DAC aren't that for me.

Preferences to using computer-audio vs CD are secondary to SQ here.

I think that's everything!
TIA.

Edit: it seems the DAC19 may become available, or it may be replaced. The questions still stand for now.

 

[vo_obgyn]

A lot of people here will say to buy just about any transport, but then get a good DAC. But I think that there are some transports that are better than others - more reliable, etc. A good DAC with good input options is a reasonable idea. There are also good CDP's also. I have an NAD C542 CD Player that sounds great on its own, for example. I like its DAC section better that the DAC MAgic DAC section. I still use the DAC Magic though for my Wadia i170 transport and it sounds great! Hope this helps.

 

[anoobis]

Sounds like you're suggesting I get both! :-D

 

[anoobis]

I decided to order the Onkyo DX7555 as I can spend some time with it and send it back if necessary.

At the moment, I keep swinging from being impressed to unimpressed! I've run a battery of comparisions using different sources, amps and headphones. I decided that the final arbitor would be:

[Onkyo, Sharp integrated mini system] -> CKKIII -> HD600.

Going into this round, my concerns regarding the Onkyo were:
a) comparatively too light/thin a sound
b) differences between other CDPs too subtle
c) noise level on the RCA outputs

As it happens, I found the CKKIII to be thin and bass-light also. My preconceptions are that both the amp and headphones are fairly neutral. This makes the source the culprit. However, I did get the impression that the headphones were being held back, so maybe there's an issue with my uncased fragile amp build. For that reason, I switched to the Compass amp, which is a bit darker. This definitely helped the overall sound.

First question then, if the (darkish) Compass amp improved the overall weight and balance, does this imply that the source is lacking?

It's taken several 15 minute-ish and even more direct A/B comparisons for me to be convinced of differences between the sources. They are subtle. This is worrying, as surely there's enough auxiliary equipment (amp, headphones) to show a clear improvement in source? Add to the fact the Onkyo is well-regarded, and the Sharp is a 10+ year old integrated system with only a bog standard headphone out and that leaves me unimpressed. Plus, surely I shouldn't need to go to the level of HD600 is discern the differences? Shouldn't a moderate set such as the HD497 be enough?

As for the differences, they are an improvement in spatial imaging and better instrument separation. At times, the instruments do sound more convincing with the Onkyo. Maybe 1/2 a layer of veil is gone (I know that doesn't make much sense!).

So, second question. Will the Onkyo get significantly better (< 30 hours at this point)? I know the obvious answer is to give it time, but I don't have that, as I need to decided whether it's going back. On a side note, are most differences subtle but the brain adjusts over time and magnifies the improvements? I can't help thinking if a system's that much better, it shouldn't take time to adjust.

Finally, I have noticed noise from the Onkyo line out which is significant loud but not unlistenable levels in quiet passages. Yes, it is CD dependent but almost gone when sent digitally to the Compass DAC from the Onkyo. This sort of defeats the point of that world-class DAC in the Onkyo! Anyone else had this issue?


I've banged on for long enough. Any thoughts on these concerns? Have I dismissed the Onkyo too quickly, is it an amp issue?

FWIW, I don't think it's my ears!

 

[rosgr63]

As for a DAC you might want to check the FUN.
slim.a has written a very detailed review http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...preamp-468522/

 

[powerslave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anoobis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I decided to order the Onkyo DX7555 as I can spend some time with it and send it back if necessary. At the moment, I keep swinging from being impressed to unimpressed! I've run a battery of comparisions using different sources, amps and headphones. I decided that the final arbitor would be: [Onkyo, Sharp integrated mini system] -> CKKIII -> HD600. Going into this round, my concerns regarding the Onkyo were: a) comparatively too light/thin a sound b) differences between other CDPs too subtle c) noise level on the RCA outputs As it happens, I found the CKKIII to be thin and bass-light also. My preconceptions are that both the amp and headphones are fairly neutral. This makes the source the culprit. However, I did get the impression that the headphones were being held back, so maybe there's an issue with my uncased fragile amp build. For that reason, I switched to the Compass amp, which is a bit darker. This definitely helped the overall sound. First question then, if the (darkish) Compass amp improved the overall weight and balance, does this imply that the source is lacking? It's taken several 15 minute-ish and even more direct A/B comparisons for me to be convinced of differences between the sources. They are subtle. This is worrying, as surely there's enough auxiliary equipment (amp, headphones) to show a clear improvement in source? Add to the fact the Onkyo is well-regarded, and the Sharp is a 10+ year old integrated system with only a bog standard headphone out and that leaves me unimpressed. Plus, surely I shouldn't need to go to the level of HD600 is discern the differences? Shouldn't a moderate set such as the HD497 be enough? As for the differences, they are an improvement in spatial imaging and better instrument separation. At times, the instruments do sound more convincing with the Onkyo. Maybe 1/2 a layer of veil is gone (I know that doesn't make much sense!). So, second question. Will the Onkyo get significantly better (< 30 hours at this point)? I know the obvious answer is to give it time, but I don't have that, as I need to decided whether it's going back. On a side note, are most differences subtle but the brain adjusts over time and magnifies the improvements? I can't help thinking if a system's that much better, it shouldn't take time to adjust. Finally, I have noticed noise from the Onkyo line out which is significant loud but not unlistenable levels in quiet passages. Yes, it is CD dependent but almost gone when sent digitally to the Compass DAC from the Onkyo. This sort of defeats the point of that world-class DAC in the Onkyo! Anyone else had this issue? I've banged on for long enough. Any thoughts on these concerns? Have I dismissed the Onkyo too quickly, is it an amp issue? FWIW, I don't think it's my ears!

Regarding a, is your CKKIII using battery power? If so, it may not be producing enough power compared to the compass. I've found that as I've moved up the ladder that power has a big effect on the sound.

b is really in the eye of the beholder but I've found differences between dac's and cd players which made them worth it for me but you have to make that determination for yourself.

As far as c, what interconnects are you using? You could be getting some kind of interference or perhaps your hearing clipping from some of your cd's. That happened to me once with an old hendrix cd. I thought it was the headphones at first because i didn't hear it on a stereo, then i realized it was the increased resolution from my headphone setup that made it stand out more.

 

[anoobis]

Thanks for the responses.

@rosgr63, the FUN isn't for me, I'm after a step up anyway and am starting to shy away from combos.

@powerslave
The CKKIII is mains powered, so it should be fine, which is why I'm wondering if something's come loose.

I understand your response to b), what I'm trying to ascertain is whether I can expect a significant change (opening up) in the CD player, and, whether at this level up, all differences are going to be subtle.

c) just bog-standard, I don't have anything else to try. I have tried two cables (including the one that came with the Onkyo) and it made no difference to the noise. IMO, if it is a cable issue, they shouldn't ship cables that make their unit sound that bad out of the box. I don't believe it's clipping as it's a background hiss that can be heard between notes.

 

[powerslave]

That onkyo has some kind of setup mode where you can change the digital filter slope or something like that. Have you messed around with that at all? What kind of music are you listening to? Have you tried ripping and listening from a pc/dac to see if you get similar results? As far as cables, the basic ones usually aren't strongly shielded so could be affected if run around other cables, power cords etc. You might want to look at getting something from monoprice or beldin cables from blue jeans cable. Fairly inexpensive stuff with better shielding.

 

[anoobis]

I'll have to look in to the filters.

Testing includes: orchestral, string quartet, easy listening (Katie Melua, Norah Jones), Dave Brubeck, Meat Loaf, Queen. I've tried to pick tracks that I know reasonably well, which have some characteristic that I thought would differentiate sources and which were decent recordings.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to check out cables before I need to make the decision on whether to keep the unit. Therefore, it would be very helpful to whether or not anyone else experienced noise with this model.

 

[powerslave]

I've never experienced any kind of noise with a cd player. Could power be an issue here? Are you using any kind of power bar or cheap extension cord? Anyone else you know that you can borrow cables from? If you bought local, you could probably have them try it but if online, then you may want to return just in case its fauly. Any exchange policy available?

 

[anoobis]

I'm not really in a position to start diagnosing issues, so I'm going to have to take the approach that it _may_ be faulty and see what they say. It's possible the Onkyo is simply bringing out genuine noise on the CD.

Despite having stores, they said it was available only for online purchase, so testing wasn't an option.