[balou]

Hi,
I said to myself that I'm gonna buy a decent turntable if I graduate - and well, I passed, and so I now have to buy a turntable

I thought about buying a Pro-Ject Debut III, together with a Grado Cartridge (already got that, so I could either use the supplied or the grado). Phono preamp will be my modded 80ies preamp (proper grounding, much larger psu cap, removed a lot of unnecessary stuff, opamp switched and socketed) and as a headphone amp my soon-to-be-built pimeta.

Has anybody some advice if I should buy this turntable or some other? And is there any other accessory that might be worth it? (speed control box is upgradeable and lies within the audiophile-impulse-buy-zone

)

 

[uofmtiger]

I am not sure the Grado will be a very good match for the Project Debut III. I have the Debut and was looking at buying a Grado cartridge (Grado Sonota or Platinum) and sent the Needledoctor an email asking how it would match with the Project. Here is their response (ignore the Bellari related portion of their email):

"The Bellari would be great match for the Debut, but I'd steer clear of the Grados on that table. Being an unshielded cartridge, you may run into some noise issues. Look into the Dynavector 10x5. It works well on that arm, and it has alot sonic similarity to the Grados."

 

[lini]

I'd rather recommend to go for a nice used Dual (like this one: http://cgi.ebay.ch/Dual-CS-505-3_W0Q...QQcmdZViewItem) amd invest the rest in a better cartridge or accessories (good carbon fibre brush, stylus cleaner, anti-static record sleeves...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[goldenratiophi]

Some Googling revealed a few people who dislike the Debut III platter, but other than that it probably sounds good (Stereophile product of the year runner up etc.)

In a couple days I'll be ordering a Rega P1 based on the Stereophile and Tone Audio reviews, though I doubt that's of any use because I've never heard either

 

[balou]

The Rega and Pro-Ject introduction models seem to be very similar in price and performance - but my hifi dealer just happens to be a pro-ject dealer, so I'll probably go with that brand

Quote:

I'd rather recommend to go for a nice used Dual

That would be an idea. Actually, I already have a Dual turntable, but with a ultra strange cartridge mount (something proprietary). The needle's broken - one record played so-so, the other was unlistenable. But from what I heard from the first record, I'm sure that I want to go vinyl.

About the platter: there are replacement acryl/glass platters, or I could just go up the model line. It's insane anyway - the basic project turntable would cost less than my screw*ing cheap ipod digital music player. The Xpression III costs the same as my ipod, has an acrylic platter and a partially-carbon tone arm.
pr*n:

Oh, and about the grado cartridge: It was completely unuseable in my old pioneer turntable (cheap consumer model from the 70s). hissssssssss. I'd have to see if it would work in this player

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by balou /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I already have a Dual turntable, (...)

Which model exactly?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[senny-ftw]

FWIW, I have an RPM9 with an Ortofon cartridge and it's excellent...

Make sure you use a decent phono stage - I use the Trichord Dino, which is alright... I don't know anything about the one you have.

 

[balou]

I kinda forgot this thread after my holidays... time for a revival

Quote:

Which model exactly?

it's a dual 1256, OEM'd by schneider hifi concept.

senny-ftw: thats also the turntable I want to buy, unfortunately my wallet won't allow it. maybe later

Quote:

I don't know anything about the one you have.

me neither

it's a modified 80ies Ready Sound phono/microphone preamp. Mods included proper grounding, removal of the microphone part and other unneccessary stuff, opamp rolling and psu cap replacement. I'm gonna DIY another phono stage... this one is just meant as a temporary solution. but the modding sure was fun

 

[lini]

balou: The CS-1256 isn't a bad table. I'd recommend to revive it. Original replacement needles for the ULM cartridges are still available new. I don't know which ULM cartridge exactly was originally mounted on the 1256 - if it was the 40S, you can even upgrade it with better needles.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[balou]

lini, but the nonstandard cartridge mount really sucks...
I don't have access to this turntable right now, so I can't check which cartridge is attached.

Where do I get replacement needles?

 

[lini]

balou: Well, back in the day, Dual's ULM concept did make sense and was easy to use as well - and the quality of the ULM cartridges made for Dual by Ortofon was good, too. And if somebody really wanted to mount a standard 1/2" cart, 1/2" adaptors for any Dual-specific mount were easily available (some of those still are, others are long sold out).

As for the replacement needles, there are quite a few vendors - e.g.: http://www.williamthakker.eu/index.php?cPath=10_13_88

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[balou]

Thread resurection - just ordered an upgrade needle for my Ortofon ULM 40S cartridge (Dual DN155 S). Wasn't the cheapest, but it's surely cheaper than buying an Pro-Ject Xpression III. But I have the suspicion that I'll do it anyway

. Or the RPM9...

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by balou /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wasn't the cheapest, but it's surely cheaper than buying an Pro-Ject Xpression III. But I have the suspicion that I'll do it anyway . Or the RPM9...

If the you can get the Dual up and running well I don't think it's really worth bothering with the cheaper Pro-Ject decks like the Debut as they arn't any better really.
You need to spend quite a bit these days to better the good old Duals. The Rega P2/3 are a bit better maybe but it's mainly a different style of presentation rather than a quantum leap in sonics.

To comprehensively outperform the Dual's you'll need to look at something like a Michell Gyro SE or perhaps the modern German tables like Acoustic Solid are going to be a better bang for buck in your neck of the woods. Decks like the VPI are way overpriced in Europe.

 

[TomH]

I just picked up one of these (Debut III) with the OM5e stock cartridge in tasty lime green as a backup/knock around table. Everything seems functionally fine and the build quality is more than acceptable for this price. However, the sonic signature is WAY tipped up in the high frequencies to the point I am doing some research on other cartridge options and have tried three phono stages (Citation I vintage, HK460i receiver, ProJect Phonobox, all giving the same results). Tracking force and VTA have been verified as optimal so I'm leaning towards trying a different cart to see if that evens things out.

This table/arm cartridge combo also seems to be susceptible to some low to moderate level hum and is sensitive to grounding more than my Sota setup.

Seems to have potential but needs some tuning, would be my initial impression.

 

[PITTM]

I researched this very thing for about 2-3 months and was going to buy either a Rega P1 or the Pro-Ject. I ended up getting a great deal on a Music Hall MMF-5 and have enjoyed it immensely. Buy one if possible.