[taylor]

...and was hoping that you guys might be able to give me some tips.

I'd ideally get a CJ-8 Scrambler, but they're not that common, so I'm probably looking at CJ-6, CJ-7, CJ-8, or a YJ. This isn't going to be a daily driver, more of a weekend toy for my dad, and a thanksgiving/xmas/spring break truck for me.

First, I have to point out that I have no intentions of like rock crawling or anything like that. We're talking probably 75% of the driving will be on paved roads in good condition, maybe 20% in rain or snow on paved roads, and 5% on dirt roads in somewhat decent condition (decent enough that I can drive them in a FWD car with regular road tires). My dad loves the 1960s Land Rovers and Toyota FJs, and is sorta having a midlife crisis type thing with wanting a Jeep. The only real requirements are that it's a Jeep, it's not too expensive, and it's not a slushbox.

I've got a few questions:

How do lifted suspensions affect the handling of the truck? I'm guessing that it makes it roll a lot more in turns, but is it bad?

How do the really big 32-33" offroad tires affect the acceleration and on-road handling? I'd imagine that they would be bad for acceleration, but is the transmission geared to compensate for that?

What kind of performance could I expect from the different engines? The CJs all have the AMC carbureted 258 I-6 or the 304 V-8, and the YJs have a fuel injected 2.5L I-4 or a 4L I-6. Of course, there are also some 350 SBC swaps.

How reliable are they? I'd imagine that the carbureted ones are pretty solid, since there's a minimum of things to break.

All of the CJs are over 20 years old, and some are over 25. Is there any sort of historical registration that I can get?

Also, what are emissions inspection like? I'd probably just run headers into glasspacks then out the sides, if it can get some sort of emissions exempt classic car thing.

Is there any other stuff you guys think I should know?

I know I'm sorta barking up the tree looking for a Jeep that's fast on pavement, but I'd appreciate any tips that would help me find something that's decently quick.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...and was hoping that you guys might be able to give me some tips. I'd ideally get a CJ-8 Scrambler, but they're not that common, so I'm probably looking at CJ-6, CJ-7, CJ-8, or a YJ. This isn't going to be a daily driver, more of a weekend toy for my dad, and a thanksgiving/xmas/spring break truck for me. First, I have to point out that I have no intentions of like rock crawling or anything like that. We're talking probably 75% of the driving will be on paved roads in good condition, maybe 20% in rain or snow on paved roads, and 5% on dirt roads in somewhat decent condition (decent enough that I can drive them in a FWD car with regular road tires). My dad loves the 1960s Land Rovers and Toyota FJs, and is sorta having a midlife crisis type thing with wanting a Jeep. The only real requirements are that it's a Jeep, it's not too expensive, and it's not a slushbox.

as an ocasional use pleasure car, i would HIGHLY recomend something else. virtually anything else actually. i suppose my opinions differ from yours and your fathers though.

as far as the whole midlife crisis, bummer.
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I've got a few questions: How do lifted suspensions affect the handling of the truck? I'm guessing that it makes it roll a lot more in turns, but is it bad?

imagine if you took a car that handled like a box full of turd and made it worse! handling is not a strong point of a lifted jeep. a friend with a cj5&7 had a small 8 in the 7. it would beat a mustang to top speed (about 60mph) but could not take a street corner at faster than 10mph safely.
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How do the really big 32-33" offroad tires affect the acceleration and on-road handling? I'd imagine that they would be bad for acceleration, but is the transmission geared to compensate for that?

you get new differential gears, you adjust the angle of the drive axles to compensate for the lift, you are good to go. the only real concern is that you are hauling 4 tyres weighing 70lbs each, when you could have 4 at 30lbs... thats not particularly good for acceleration, but you can usually fit a bigger engine under the hood to make up for it.
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What kind of performance could I expect from the different engines? The CJs all have the AMC carbureted 258 I-6 or the 304 V-8, and the YJs have a fuel injected 2.5L I-4 or a 4L I-6. Of course, there are also some 350 SBC swaps.

too many variables with gearing and tires and whatnot. you can trade acceleration for top speed VERY easily with a jeep, so you get to pick. generally when dealing with mid-life crisis cars, more power is more better.
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How reliable are they? I'd imagine that the carbureted ones are pretty solid, since there's a minimum of things to break.

very reliable. you will be working on it for an hour for every 10 or 15 you drive it. borderline guaranteed.

FWIW, fuel injection systems built after about 1993 have virtually ALL proven more reliable than ANY carburetor. with the ready availability of user tunable ones, there is no reason to put a carb on anything except for nostalgia, initial expense (its already there on the junkyard engine!), or to meet requirements for a racing class. a well tuned FI system makes more power than a carb, runs cleaner and more efficiently, and the floats dont get messed up when you drive it up a wall.
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All of the CJs are over 20 years old, and some are over 25. Is there any sort of historical registration that I can get?

you MAY be able to qualify for historic car status in NJ, BUT that puts restrictions on when and how far per year you can legally drive the car, but exempts you from certain things that are difficult for even newer jeeps to do.
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Also, what are emissions inspection like? I'd probably just run headers into glasspacks then out the sides, if it can get some sort of emissions exempt classic car thing.

see above.
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Is there any other stuff you guys think I should know?

i hope you dont ever want to drive it more than 70mph.
its either a money pit or a turd-cart. perhaps both.
you should probably just ignore me.
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I know I'm sorta barking up the tree looking for a Jeep that's fast on pavement, but I'd appreciate any tips that would help me find something that's decently quick.

same as building a nice stereo. throw some money at the problem parts, and you will have a quick as hell vehicle.

 

[nysulli]

well, i don't have much experience with Jeeps, but i'll share what I know that might be of use to you

I've never personally owned a jeep, but my close friend owned an early model TJ, so some of this may or maynot apply to the YJ

your talking about engine performance, his came with the 180hp I-6, he then added an intake, header back exhaust, and then to keep the engine running a bit cooler, a 10c cooler opening Thermostat. then put either 30.5 or 31.5 tires on it, what he put on were the biggest tire that would fit without any lift on it. I don't recall if he regeared it at all

but it moved pretty good to 30-40 mph, then began to fall off

as said, the handling wasn't the greatest, and any increase in tire size will be noticeably squirmier on the road, for the type of driving your talking about, the biggest tire you can get to fit might be the best idea, well, the biggest you can fit until a lift that is

the lift will affect your handling noticeably, it also depends on what type of lift your talking about, if your just looking for an inch or 2, you can be super cheap and just do a body lift, which would be the worst for handling. suspension kits would be far better, but it obviously depends on the quality of the kit, and how much lift your talking.

for mostly road driving and light offroad use, i wouldn't suggest much of a lift at all, as mentioned, the handling can get a bit sloppy

 

[taylor]

Now, how about a rebuilt jeep? My dad is trying to get one that's been restored, possibly even one with an engine swap. Will that make things any different versus what you say?

My dad knows the rebuilding guy, so if he went and asked for some specific things, he might be able to get to choose the stuff that goes into it.

If the following is just plain dumb, let me know. I'm coming from a Maxima and a lot of Maxima related forums, where there are lots of improved suspensions and 3.5L V6 swaps.

Would it be decently quick yet still able to cruise nice at 70mph with a small block FI crate motor?

What would the handling be like at stock height with road tires and very tight springs and struts?

 

[Homeless]

If you don't plan on wheeling it don't bother lifting it. It'll be a waste of money both in the cost of the lift and in bigger tires and more gas. I have a friend who lifted his TJ, put 35's on it, did not re-gear it, and he did all this on a Dana35 rear axle...basically means he doesn't have 5th gear at all, and there isn't much of a 4th...

How much do you plan on spending? Are you looking for a vintage CJ model specifically? if not and you're considering a YJ I would forget that and buy an early model TJ. The ride on the TJ is much better than the YJ...TJ has coil spring suspension and the YJ has leaf springs.

I have driven a YJ numerous times and own a TJ currently. I wheel it occasionally and have no lift on it. Right now it's on 30.5" tires and they're fine for what I do. Just disconnect the sway bar and a way you go...

Good luck in the search...btw, here's my JEEP...

 

[taylor]

So, to summarize, I'm probably the best off with an early TJ with no lift, in terms of ride and reliability?

For tires, do I want big ~30" offroad ones, or will regular tires (albeit pretty wide, high apsect ratio ones designed for big cars) be better for on-road handling?

Also, what's the towing capacity of these things like? My aunt has a boat that she was able to tow in her old Mazda MPV, which is a 4WD 3L V6 truck. Is it safe to assume that with a high quality hitch, a Jeep can also tow that much?

edit - For the tires, I guess I meant to say "Do I want offroad tires, or are regular ones better if I'm not offroading at all?" because I just did some quick addition and realized that I'm thinking 30" is a big offroad tire, but the tires on my Oldsmobile were 29", definitely not offroad though.

 

[Homeless]

Like I said, the ones you can see in my pic are a 30" tire. I could get a 32" maybe a 33" under there without any lift but they may rub at full lock or when flexing the suspension. You can buy radials that would be decent for mild off roading (which is what I basically do, nothing too extreme) and the road noise shouldn't be too bad, but realistically it's a JEEP, and road noise shouldn't be a concern.

The towing capacity and what the engine will actually tow are two different numbers. The engine in my Tj is the same as the grand cherokee which will tow 5000 pounds yet it's rated in my manual at 2500 pounds. Reason being is that the wrangler has a short wheel base and it is easy to jack knife the jeep with too much weight. You should be able to tow a boat, but don't expect it to pull and handle like a pick up truck with a long base...just be careful...

 

[taylor]

Is yours the I4 or the I6, manual or auto? Would any of that stuff make a difference in towing?

 

[n_maher]

My advice/points of interest:

1. 31x10.5's will rub on a stock TJ, not to mention 32's or 33's
2. Avoid the Auto in early TJ's, it's a 3 speed and a serious liability if you ever intend on driving the thing on the highway
3. Horrible, horrible gas mileage. Expect 12 to 14mpg unless you concentrate on babying it. The I4 isn't much better and you'll hate yourself if you get a 4cyl.
4. There's nothing quite like a JEEP in the summer. The rest of the year I think I'd prefer to drive something else.
5. I wouldn't try to tow much with any version of CJ/YJ/TJ. The short wheelbase is a killer (as previously mentioned).

 

[no1likesme]

DO IT, YOU WON'T REGRET IT!!!

forget about only driving it on the street. If you have a jeep you will eventually take it off road and then you will be hooked. It is not if but when

I have had my 95 cherokee for about 2 years now and I love it. I am currently lifting it and getting bigger tires (31X10.50's)

turning is for chumps

 

[Homeless]

I have a Sport, I6, 4-speed auto, with the Dana44 rear axle and disc brakes all around. As far as I can tell my jeep has everything a Rubicon has minus the locker and gear ratio (Rubicon is 4.10 and mine is 3.73)

 

[taylor]

I won't be putting nearly enough miles on it (and all last winter I drove a car that got 8mpg) for gas mileage to be a concern.

For the tires, I was thinking maybe just 255/75R15 radials? It will be mostly for my dad to cruise around town with on weekends, and for me to daily drive for the two months a year I'm home.

I was definitely getting a 5 speed. Autos are no fun.

 

[r3cc0s]

for your purpose
why buy a Jeep?

Unless your rational thought is just that of a "lifted wrangler with fat tires looks cool"

If you are planning on doing the ocational trail and want some road worthyness with a Wrangler
Stick with a TJ 4.0L with a simple 2" BL
or go with a 4" Skyjacker lift (or rubi express or whatever)
and stick with 31 or 32" tires
That way, you get the benefit of coil springs for on-road handling, bad weather and off-roadability

If you want a rugged Wrangler, you'll have to spend money getting the following:

You can go the TJ route, which IMO is still a good route with the inline 6 4.0L but they do cost more to buy but overall the coiled spring jeep (with sway bars) will handle much better than leaf springs

YJ and or CJ
well for actual reliability, I'd still stick with the YJ for it's 4.0L, its the best of the bunch, compared to even the 304 V8

start by suspension, getting more leafs, and doing a spring perch reversal
Get rid of the diff's cause by this point of age, it's probably time for a rebuild
so find yourself some Dana 44's or go for some Yota diffs with rebuilt LSDs

If you're going to run larger than a 32" tire, you NEED to make sure you're going to run at least a 3.73 gear ratio (both front and rear have to match)

There is going to be other elements, such as driveshaft and diff angle bind dependant on how much lift
this will have to be corrected usually by a kit with extenders and slip yoke eliminators

Then comes the steering, well if it wasn't precise enough before... it'll get worse... I belive the CJ and YJ were ball circulating steering and the TJs are a rack and pinion

Then comes your transfer case, running larger tires and lower gears means you'll need to reduce or stength your stock transfer case gears(dependant on application)

blah blah blah
IMO, go find someone who has done up a late 90's TJ properly and buy it built (granted that you make sure the engine, drivetrain and frame is in good shape)

OR... you could go and buy a Chevy Tracker\Suzuki Sidekick i.e. a 89-98 series and put in a 3" body lift, and a 3" suspension lift with new front/rear diff gears to churn 32s pretty easily and probably for alot cheaper than you'll find a completed Jeep and still get 30mpg

(btw-- I've seen them keep up or surpass a jeep on simular tire sizes due to smaller diffs and IFS ground clearance on trails)


or Forget what I'm saying, and just tell your dad to get a late model Land Rover Defender if he wants something with heritage and class
(and or properly restored Diesel FJ40\45(long box is sweet)

 

[taylor]

Well, now he's looking at a restored '89 YJ with a 4" lift and a V8. Trying to figure out what kind of V8 it is now...

I ran your suggestions for a stock height TJ with 30" tires and he told me he wants a lift and bigger tires. Then he sent me a link to a craigslist page for a CJ with 44" tires and a huge lift.

 

[Ingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, now he's looking at a restored '89 YJ with a 4" lift and a V8. Trying to figure out what kind of V8 it is now... I ran your suggestions for a stock height TJ with 30" tires and he told me he wants a lift and bigger tires. Then he sent me a link to a craigslist page for a CJ with 44" tires and a huge lift.

44" tires look rediculous on a jeep. My buddy has a jeep club where they do some very intense rock krawling and 4WD trails. Almost all of them just put on 35" BFG Mud-Terrain T/A KM2s when they came out. I think anything bigger than a 33x12.50 is rediculous for a 4.0L I6 powered machine.


This is in my opinion what a sensible, good looking jeep looks like. Those are 33x12.50 BFG Mud-Terrain T/A