[fiddler]

Right now, I've got this as my "temporary" main setup:

iBook G3 -> M-Audio Sonica w/ modded analog section -> META42, pretty much as maxed-out as you can get -> Equinox equipped HD600

I was using a Sony D-35 classic PCDP as my main source up until weeks ago, this is quite a bit better.

The main reasons I got the Sonica were: a) decent analog out to hold me over and b) the bigger reason, a good digital output to allow a DAC upgrade.

For now anyway, I want to base my system around the computer. My Mac is super-quiet, so fan noise and whatnot isn't an issue. I don't have a huge HDD (40 gigs is tiny nowadays), so I'll be reading CD's off the optical drive for now. If I ever get a nice firewire 120 giger, then maybe I can rip most of my stuff to AIFF (that's WAV in Mac-talk). I would eventually love to have the ability to carry around my entire music collection with me.

The upgrade isn't going to happen for months... hell, maybe not for a year unless things turn around for me. But it doesn't hurt to start planning/saving.

Looking at my system, I think the source is still clearly the weak point. Once that's taken care of I might consider building myself a PPA or buying a similar-class amp.

Anyway, the upgrade path I was considering:

$500 for a dAck!-- pretty much everthing I've read about this thing is positive, and the price seems right. Or, an ART-DI/O, which I would probably mod myself. Question: How much better is the dAck over a modded DI/O? Any other contenders I should be considering in this price range? I'm pretty sure I won't be able to pay much more than $500 for the DAC, being a poor student and all, so let's say that's my budget. That said, I'm not looking for an incremental upgrade over the Sonica-- I want to take my system to the next level.

Of course there's the issue with the optical out on the Sonica. Neither the ART nor the dAck have optical inputs. A simple converter could cost as little as 15 bucks, while a circuit with jitter-reduction would cost much more, in the form of a Monarchy DIP "Classic" or a CO3. Would the DAC upgrade still be worth it even if I add the CO3/DIP later on? I was just worried about the quality of optical->spdif converters. As far as I know, there's the $15 converters you can buy from PartsExpress or RadioShack (I do believe they're the same unit, from the looks of it), or the CO2, which costs over 3 times more. I'm guessing it's probably going to be the same type of circuitry inside, except it can be used both ways (coax->optical, optical->coax) hence the added cost.

I would probably buy the DAC first, with a optical->coax converter. Then add a DIP or CO3 (are there any other options?) later on...

Am I on the right track, or am I looking in the wrong direction altogether?

 

[Sean H]

I think you are definitely on the right track and are headed down the path I have already taken. Here's my source path I use right now:

Computer > Sonica/Toslink output > Glass optical cable > Monarchy DIP > Stereovox HDXV coaxial digital cable > Ack! Industries dAck!

The Ack Dack! is my current source but I've used others in it's place as well and using a DAC with a computer and a Sonica toslink output is an excellent way to get great sonics. I can definitely vouch for the Ack! dAck!, it's an excellent DAC. Lacks a lot of edge and digititis , very correct, smooth and fluid sounding. Unless you have exhausted your search I'd look at other options too, lot's of them out there. I've owned a modded Art DI/O before and can't argue they are very good but I like the dAck! better. Lot's of new and used options under $500. Check out Audiogon.

Another thing to consider is the new AOS DAC that can be built right into a PPA, with both optical and coaxial input, early reports say it is VERY good. You mentioned a PPA may be in your future, which by the way I just had one made for me and have had it for a week or so and love it!

The Monarchy DIP I have in front of the dAck! made a nice impact on the sound for the better. Seemed to improve things in about every way, it cleans up the signal and provides an ideal signal for the dAck!. It works as a great way to convert from optical to coaxial too. I'm not too familiar with the cheaper optical/coax converters myself.

Lot's of options. The Sonica is a great way to get digital to an outboard DAC. If you decided on a DAC that has coaxial only you could always go for a M-Audio Revolution or the like which has a coaxial syle digital output.

 

[fiddler]

Hey thanks for responding.

I should be slapped for overlooking the PPA-DAC daughterboard and the Piccolo. I just realized how small that Piccolo really is. The smallest Hammond case?! That's like... tiny.

But considering this is for mainly a home rig, I would probaby want something with RCA outputs. I don't think I'm "1337" enough to comfortably DIY a DAC, (I only used the nerdy term because of my current post count... which I will sadly kill as soon as I hit the submit button... hmm... I wouldnt' mind my post count being permanantly "1337". That'd be something to brag about...) so I'd probably buy the board pre-populated.
At first I wasn't too keen on tying the DAC to the amp... but for $500, I could probably buy an assembled DAC board, and have enough left over for PPA parts! Man, I don't know why I didn't think of that before...

 

[davvy]

Two suggestions, both entirely based on stuff that I have read rather than any personal experience.

1. Why not just upgrade your soundcard. For $300 you can get an RME Digipad which has a HUGE reputation around here and from what I have heard will probably sound better than the dAck (pretty sure I read that in a post somewhere). That way you don't have to worry about messy optical to coaxial conversion and you could sell your Sonica to cover part of the cost. And you would be getting better sound for half the price !

2. If you are going to be waiting for a few months, Perreaux are coming out with a USB DAC (supposed to be available in June, there is a thread about it somewhere). I have really high hopes for this product and may well get one if the reviews are positive.

 

[fiddler]

I have a laptop so USB is my only option the moment. Wait, the RME only comes in PCI, right?

I think buildilng a PPA with DAC daughterboard seems to the most feasible upgrade for me, giving me a source and amp upgrade in one shot.

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally posted by davvy 1. Why not just upgrade your soundcard. For $300 you can get an RME Digipad which has a HUGE reputation around here and from what I have heard will probably sound better than the dAck (pretty sure I read that in a post somewhere). That way you don't have to worry about messy optical to coaxial conversion and you could sell your Sonica to cover part of the cost. And you would be getting better sound for half the price !

Er...where did you see this? Pretty bold statement for having not heard the dAck!. You've never heard the dAck!, obviously. I've never heard the RME so I can't say much, but the battery power vs. sound card environment alone might be telling of something.

 

[lan]

I havn't heard the dAack! but I have heard the shigaraki and I have an RME. I don't like the sound of RME and prefer my DI/O. The DI/O is too finicky for most people. The dAck! is good because it runs off battery and will have clean power. That's one less things for you to deal with.

The only reason I don't use the dAck! or shigaraki is I use 24/96 for movies and music editing.

 

[rickcr42]

one thing to consider is a 1:1 audio isolation jack following your dac

you would be surprised how much clarity is gained and edginess lost when you filter out all that garbage mixed with the signal from a computer

cheap solution would be from edcor , more expensive would be the offerings from jensen or lundahl

 

[Sean H]

Interesting, thanks. Do you have any links? Could this be used in conjunction with a Monarchy DIP or would it be moot if using a DIP?

 

[rickcr42]

not moot at all each performing a different function

DIP-jitter eduction

Transformer-digital 'hash' reduction

be back with some links

BTW-construction is a piece of cake

1-cut a pine (or hardwood) board to about 3X3 , stain and seal it if you like ,add some rubber feet

2-get an aluminum L-bracket about 3" long and 1 " high ,drill it out for the in/out jacks and screw it to the pine boared at the rear

3-strap the trannies down to the board

4-using the wires already attached to the trannies wire them to the jacks

done !

Really adds a bit of "blackness" to the signal froma computer

 

[rickcr42]

Ok ,seems i have covered this before and i forgot


http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...on+transformer

everything you need to know pretty much links off this thread

enjoy

 

[davvy]

Quote:

Er...where did you see this? Pretty bold statement for having not heard the dAck!. You've never heard the dAck!, obviously. I've never heard the RME so I can't say much, but the battery power vs. sound card environment alone might be telling of something.

My apologies. I was getting the dAck confused with the DI/O which was compared to the Digipad in this thread: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...&highlight=rme

There is also this thread at AVS forums which compares the RME very favourably with high end external DACs costing several thousand dollars: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=236215

I don't buy into the whole "internal soundcards must sound like crap because of the environment inside a PC" arguement, as there are plenty of internal soundcards that sound great. And there are also multiple examples of soundcards that have USB versions (where the DAC is well away from the "nasties" inside the PC) and internal versions that sound basically the same.

 

[lan]

I thought the DIP already had isolating transformers? also some sound card do.

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally posted by rickcr42 Ok ,seems i have covered this before and i forgot http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...on+transformer everything you need to know pretty much links off this thread enjoy

Thanks, Rick, but like lan said, I thought the DIP had isolating transformers as well??

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally posted by davvy I don't buy into the whole "internal soundcards must sound like crap because of the environment inside a PC" arguement, as there are plenty of internal soundcards that sound great. And there are also multiple examples of soundcards that have USB versions (where the DAC is well away from the "nasties" inside the PC) and internal versions that sound basically the same.

I don't buy into that either and hope you weren't suggesting that is what I meant. I found an M-Audio Revo I once owned to be a very good sounding card, and in fact I like how the Sonica sounds as a source as well.