[antdroid]

And to add off topic, graphs have notorious variability between a list of conditions that would take forever to list. I'm learning this first hand as in experiment with measurements.

I finished the first part of my 3-parter of trying to explain Legacy 3 measurements. haha. This first one is talking about the variations in measuring IEMs and why you can't just compare one graph to another.

https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/07/measurements-and-limitations.html

Also has some links to other articles on this topic. I'll have to add more when I have time, I have a lot of papers and posts on this that I find valuable.

 

[antdroid]

I wrote a follow-up article on these measurement variations to best of my knowledge, and address some other things about the Legacy 3 here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/07/thieaudio-legacy-3-unit-variation.html

This is just my take on it, others may have different opinions. It's a little technical in nature.

My basic tl;dr is that I did get a badly mismatched set originally. One of the sets did match the graphs that HBB measured, or at least comes pretty close. We use the same coupler. I got a new set, and they measured more closely to the sets that other reviews measured and reviewed. It could be that there was a small tuning change to reduce the amount of lower treble dip to smooth it out. This may have occurred around 180-200 serial numbers based on headfi polling. The new set, imo, sounds better.

Treble extension isn't the best on the universal L3, but the CIEM has it, and I'm pretty impressed with the CIEM, and that review will come soon.

 

[Amari]

My first impression was that the fit is ok and the overall sound is neutral yes like boring. I panicked because I can't hear the bass pumping like some said having received some defects but i changed the eartips and EQd my device eargasmic follows ❤

What are your eartips of choice for this?

 

[Wes S]

I wrote a follow-up article on these measurement variations to best of my knowledge, and address some other things about the Legacy 3 here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/07/thieaudio-legacy-3-unit-variation.html

This is just my take on it, others may have different opinions. It's a little technical in nature.

My basic tl;dr is that I did get a badly mismatched set originally. One of the sets did match the graphs that HBB measured, or at least comes pretty close. We use the same coupler. I got a new set, and they measured more closely to the sets that other reviews measured and reviewed. It could be that there was a small tuning change to reduce the amount of lower treble dip to smooth it out. This may have occurred around 180-200 serial numbers based on headfi polling. The new set, imo, sounds better.

Treble extension isn't the best on the universal L3, but the CIEM has it, and I'm pretty impressed with the CIEM, and that review will come soon.

Edited, as I found my answer. Thanks for the info @antdroid!

 

[Rippersyte]

What are your eartips of choice for this?

Acoustune AET08 Medium

 

[SBranson]

Hmm... I’ve been following this “unit variance” thing as I’ve been interested in the L3.. makes me think that it’s really worth buying new rather than saving a few $ buying used...

 

[IEMusic]

FWIW, I have an early set (<100 Mystique) and I REALLY like my set. I’m not certain how significant the lower treble dip is vs any newer sets, but I like it b/c the treble is very smooth w/o any sibilance except on the most offending tracks. The upper treble extension is great, and is similar to the T2+. I’m definitely not selling mine, and may get a CIEM eventually.

Thanks for all of the clarification and information @antdroid!

 

[Wes S]

FWIW, I have an early set (<100 Mystique) and I REALLY like my set. I’m not certain how significant the lower treble dip is vs any newer sets, but I like it b/c the treble is very smooth w/o any sibilance except on the most offending tracks. The upper treble extension is great, and is similar to the T2+. I’m definitely not selling mine, and may get a CIEM eventually.

Thanks for all of the clarification and information @antdroid!

I love my set #312, and definitely want a custom version, so I am right there with ya!

 

[FSTOP]

I wrote a follow-up article on these measurement variations to best of my knowledge, and address some other things about the Legacy 3 here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/07/thieaudio-legacy-3-unit-variation.html

This is just my take on it, others may have different opinions. It's a little technical in nature.

My basic tl;dr is that I did get a badly mismatched set originally. One of the sets did match the graphs that HBB measured, or at least comes pretty close. We use the same coupler. I got a new set, and they measured more closely to the sets that other reviews measured and reviewed. It could be that there was a small tuning change to reduce the amount of lower treble dip to smooth it out. This may have occurred around 180-200 serial numbers based on headfi polling. The new set, imo, sounds better.

Treble extension isn't the best on the universal L3, but the CIEM has it, and I'm pretty impressed with the CIEM, and that review will come soon.

That's some good work. Thanks for taking all of your time and effort to do it.
My L3 is a custom but not the custom fit. I've had a few ear impressions made in the past for old monitors. Didn't realize until later there were differences b/w the regular and color shell customs too, as in the flush 2pin connector...
I guess the definition of exactly where the "extended" octave is is also not defined in most people's mind. When studying recording engineering, I was first told that human hearing extends from 16-16khz (not 20-20khz as usually rounded off). So 16k is the top, in good young ears.
Here's a small sampling of reading material on one shelf of one of my bookcases. Found one little book on crossover building published in 1960, it's probably better than counting sheep for most.
Interestingly, the term audiophile goes all the way back to 1951, so this stuff has been discovered, researched, and debated for a long time.
One thing I think we can all agree on--we are living in a time where many of these IEMs are marvels for the price we would have paid just a few years ago!

 

[IEMusic]

I was first told that human hearing extends from 16-16khz (not 20-20khz as usually rounded off). So 16k is the top, in good young ears.

Good to know! After testing with various IEMs I’ve discovered that my hearing is from approx, 15Hz to 15KHz.

I like this website. https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ (another member posted it).

 

[SBranson]

Assuming my computers speakers are correct, my 12 year old can hear up to almost 18khz... but I guess that’s questionable if the site playing the tones is correct.
He can certainly hear well above me. At 51, I top out in the 14-15khz range...

 

[FSTOP]

Assuming my computers speakers are correct, my 12 year old can hear up to almost 18khz... but I guess that’s questionable if the site playing the tones is correct.
He can certainly hear well above me. At 51, I top out in the 14-15khz range...

But can your computer speakers actually PLAY in the human hearing range?
I've got 4-way studio monitors that 'just' go down to 25hz (that's with 8 and 12" woofers), and ribbon tweeters that extend past 45k.
I'm 52 and am also lucky I can still hear up to 15k.

On another note, I think many listeners' "tuning" preferences are affected by their lifetime experience of hearing recorded music on modern audio systems that are at the most 2-way. These days, usually even a cheap "full range" driver in a tiny box for L/R and a "subwoofer" in another little box for the bass. Notwithstanding that stereo imaging is highly affected in that some lower octaves are still directional material. And SUBsonic frequencies would be BELOW 20k, and the typical sub speaker doesn't even hit 50-100hz.

 

[antdroid]

That's some good work. Thanks for taking all of your time and effort to do it.
My L3 is a custom but not the custom fit. I've had a few ear impressions made in the past for old monitors. Didn't realize until later there were differences b/w the regular and color shell customs too, as in the flush 2pin connector...
I guess the definition of exactly where the "extended" octave is is also not defined in most people's mind. When studying recording engineering, I was first told that human hearing extends from 16-16khz (not 20-20khz as usually rounded off). So 16k is the top, in good young ears.
Here's a small sampling of reading material on one shelf of one of my bookcases. Found one little book on crossover building published in 1960, it's probably better than counting sheep for most.
Interestingly, the term audiophile goes all the way back to 1951, so this stuff has been discovered, researched, and debated for a long time.
One thing I think we can all agree on--we are living in a time where many of these IEMs are marvels for the price we would have paid just a few years ago!

Nice info. I know I can hear to about 16KHz through my own uncalibrated testing. Need the redo the test with speakers to make sure if I can hear higher than that but playing test tones through loudspeakers is not friendly to the household.

 

[SBranson]

But can your computer speakers actually PLAY in the human hearing range?

That was my point. When you said 16khz as a top, it reminded me of playing sweeps with my kid just for fun trying to compare our top range... but then it occurred to me that the YouTube video or my computer’s speakers could be completely wrong.. It is fun (but also very sad) playing a “17khz” tone really loud and have my wife and kids cringe from across the room and I’m unaffected... ha... but also boohoo for me..

 

[FSTOP]

Most of my experience is only with speakers. You'd rarely use even headphones (except for the musicians/vox listening to playback tracks while performing in booths) in a studio, especially for mixing.

But I'm loving IEMs now for music listening, as they sound pretty decent these days and so portable you can take them everywhere...Not to mention the fun volumes without bothering everyone else!