[bangraman]

I’m not sure it’s the XXth, but it seems like it. Duncan and I have been meeting for as long as I’ve been a Head-Fi member, and this time it was my pleasure to introduce Hi-MD in the form of the MZ-NH1 new generation machine.


Unfortunately and inexplicably, the two London resident Minidisc T-Board moderators I’d invited (one who had confirmed) failed to turn up. You’d have thought they would have been most interested in the NH1, but apparently not.


Equipment in play:

Sources / Bases:
Sony PCG-TR2 laptop
Sony MZ-NH1 Hi-MD recorder
Sony MZ-N10 Net MD recorder
Sony D-NE900 PCDP
iPod Mini


Amps:
Xin Supermini


Headphones:
Audio-Technica ATH-W2002
Sennheiser PX100
Sennheiser PX200
Shure E5
Sony MDR-G74SL


Direct comparisons were made between the NH1 and iPod Mini, using 256K VBR MP3 data for the iPod Mini and 256K ATRAC3+ Hi-SP data for the NH1. The NH1 and the N10 were also compared. Identical Hi-SP (ATRAC3+ 256K) music data was also compared between the NH1 and D-NE900 using a Xin Supermini amp, using the PCG-TR2 laptop to create ATRAC CD’s for the NE900 ‘on the fly’from Sonicstage.


We went through iTunes, Sonicstage and transfer of music from and to the NH1 (as well as the N10 and the iPod Mini).


I finally got to see Duncan drinking a fair amount of alcohol, as much as me in fact, whereas on previous occasions he's stuck religiously to Cola. I did my usual 'like a fish' drinking, albeit the low-alcohol lager which meant that hopefully neither of us will suffer anything nasty tomorrow morning.


The Wimbledon ladies final was on at the same time as our various headphone-related discussions, but who wanted to see the best of the 'power' players and the 'new Kournikova' duke it out? Not us... well, sneak peeks from time to time at the TV in the pub.


Bizarrely for Head-Fi meet, the headphone that got the heaviest use in this meet was the 'Street Style' MDR-G74SL. I was also finally able to persuade Duncan to try the Shure E5.


Guess that's about it. Leave this thread for questions, feedback, etc now.

 

[Duncan]

well... I must admit that today has been more of an eye opener than i'd have thought.

To cut to the chase, it appears that the new top of the line Hi-MD has what can best be described as an 'comfortable' sound. Not inoffesnsive, yet at the same time not particularily accurate, even at 256kbps Atrac3 Plus. The previous generation player seeming to have more life, more zest.. more fun to its sound.

The iPod mini seemed to on this audition beat both of the [Hi] MD players into submission, lots has been said already regarding this unit, so you are already probably more than aware of its capabilities, well - all the high praise etc that this unit receives is, in my opinion - more than justified... great little unit (let alone the iTunes software, clever bit of programming there!)

...and the surprise of the day, apart from Maria Sharapova winning the Wimbledon Ladies Final, was the MDR-G74 earphones... streetstyles, that whilst not being totally competent in what they do, are more acceptable in certain situations than the PX100, and sound somewhat similar to the PX200... so, its almost as if they're a PX150 of sorts... strange, but good!

All in all a good meet, apart from the lack of T-Boarders... nevertheless, all was good... now, where is the toilet?

 

[gpalmer]

Heh, well I accepted the offer in Scotland yesterday so hopefully I can make your next meet (although I won't have a lot of gear along)!

 

[kurisu]

Comparing 30mW to 5mW? Eh..but, I'm glad you found it "comfortable", Duncan. What headphones were of primary use when using the NH1? Could you guys discern the difference between the HD digital amp [NH1] and the digital amp of the N10?

 

[purk]

nice to know that you guys had a great meet. I was all up for Maria Sharapova. She such a babe!!
BTW, can the Legendary discmen compete with the High MD or Ipod Mini interm of sound quality?

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurisu Comparing 30mW to 5mW? Eh..but, I'm glad you found it "comfortable", Duncan. What headphones were of primary use when using the NH1? Could you guys discern the difference between the HD digital amp [NH1] and the digital amp of the N10?

Hiya.

I am the first to confess that this wasn't exactly a scientific test, comparing the iPod mini to the Sonys... so, if you'd be happier, in terms of the volume issue, and any potential [unknown] variables that can throw in to the equation, then i'll be happy to leave that out of this...

but comparing red apples (N10) with green apples (NH1) and bearing in mind that the best the N10 can do is half of the bitrate (132kbps) compared to the Hi-MD recording that was made for the NH1 (256kbps Atrac3Plus) even then it was plain to hear that the N10 is there to just give you the music in a very... 'audiophile' way, everything [relatively] crisp, clean, and precise... whereas the NH1 (with all of its extra potential don't forget) sounds very hi-fi, like a demo unit that you'd see at your local walmart. The sound is just.. well, as mentioned before, comfortable. its not particularily offensive, but then its not particularily accurate either... most [minidisc-t] consumers will love the thing, and most [head-fi] consumers will turn their noses up at it.. its hard to really describe any more than that... its likeable, if you don't know about the iPod mini, or don't have a previous generation MD I guess.

By splitting Minidisc-T and Head-Fi apart just now, I don't mean that in a derogatory way, The way I imply it is that I presume (dangerous, I know) that most Minidisc-T people will be simply using their equipment out on the road, or for casual listening, whereas there is a large proportion of head-fiers that would / will listen more critically... obviously there is quite a large crossover there, between the two sites, so what I say isn't meant to bash one forum, whilst praising another, its just saying it how I see it... if that is different to how it is, then I apologise, and assure you that I mean no ill will by it

I must confess that on neither player did we mess around with the EQs, they were left flat throughout on both units, so of course, the NH1 could well be able to walk all over the N10 with some tweaking, but [if not bangraman, then] I thought it would be fairer, in terms of comparison to have both units on flat EQ.

I guess I should leave aside the fact that even at 256kbps, a recording that was done on Hi-MD and also onto CDRW (for an D-NE900) sounded hugely artificial with, to me obvious tones of compression on the NH1, and - whilst still sounding fake (albeit in a different way, this was more of a case of too much treble, and not enough mids) on the NE900, to me personally there were either substantially less, or no signs of compression at all... bad algorithms in the NH1 for the decompression maybe?

The headphones that were in use were the MDR-G74SL... which, to me was a good thing, because its probably one of the 'phones that most people (not necessarily heaad-fiers or minidisc-t'ers) will be using... and they're not 'totally' bad.... having listened to all the units as well with both the PX100 and PX200, this is where, after a little while with all three 'phones, I came to my very unscientific conclusion that the MDR-G74SL fits into the Sennheiser lineup almost as a PX150... jack of all trades, master of none

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk nice to know that you guys had a great meet. I was all up for Maria Sharapova. She such a babe!! BTW, can the Legendary discmen compete with the High MD or Ipod Mini interm of sound quality?

Purk... Long time no speak... I hope the job is going well?

As to Maria.. 'eu natural' she has a great figure, but to me personally, her facial features aren't anything special, but i'm sure that when she's got makeup on, that she's a top class babe

I didn't take any classic discmen along, so can't say conclusively, but to me the NH1 tries to move away from the Discman sound completely... the sound is warm, and lush... something that you definetly cannot say about the D303 or others from that era... the top end seems positively muted, especially when compared to all the other units on show yesterday... and the iPod mini just (to me) walks all over it in terms of what head-fiers would want from their sound...

in my opinion, although this is a first generation player - which might stand in its favour for future lineups that have been tweaked, this is a disappointing view of the future of MD... It seems like (to me) Sony have done too little too late, to stop the swarms of HDAPs and so forth.

Who knows though, the NH1 could go down a storm with non-audiophile types

 

[Duncan]

Apologies kurisu, my references to minidisc-t were a little unthought out, seeing that you are the admin for minidisc.org, the only reason I kept bringing them into the equation, is because it was those guys that were supposed to be turning up yesterday also.

My points are all still valid though, and musing more since typing out my previous post just now... you asked about the digital amps inside the NH1 and the N10... it could be the transition from one flavour of digital amp to another that has caused the shift in sound quality... I myself know, having had an MZ-E55, MZ-R55, MZ-N707 and an MZ-E10 that the sound quality of MD (apart from maybe with the exception of the E10) has always been a step or two above that of their discman range (not neccesarily in a technical way, but certainly tonally)... or it could be, as mentioned above, that - considering this is virtually a beta model that I listened to (although to the best of my understanding, is now in effect the final version that will be shipped worldwide) that it has a buggy codec in... I really don't know, and feel slightly bad for bashing a new product virtually straight out of the box.

So... you never know, there is the slim possibility that what I heard yesterday is NOT what people will be hearing when these go on sale worldwide?!

Also, a final footnote about the NH1 itself, the main unit has a very hard to read one-line display - maybe i'm being a bit obsessed with large displays, but going from the R55/N707, with their large screens would be quite a shock.

The remote though, despite the EL backlight being much darker blue than before (think of a nice blue LED, and turn the brightness right down) is a huge step in the right direction in my opinion... as Bangraman said to me... this is much more like an iRiver remote... and they, as i'm sure you know - walk all over the old-style Sony stick remotes

 

[kurisu]

That remote will definitely be a sought after accessory for NH900 users, I can guarentee it - I imagine it'll at least fetch $75 - $100 [us], though.

Anyway, thank you for your observations..long have I thought the day I'd see you two dabbling in such, and hopefully not for the last time. It's a shame the T-Board mods didn't meet, but it happens. I know for sure if I'd got a note suggesting such I'd definitely be there, no matter how eccentric you dorks may be. [ha]

About the digital amp - I think it's a great step towards the future of MD in alot of ways [battery life + better sound imho]. You guys should try the others [sharp, kenwood, panasonic]; most have colorations to the sound that really do ATRAC3 some unique justice.

p.s. I know the forums I run are semi unknown, but we're getting there. 3 mil hits a month now, can't complain.

 

[Duncan]

kurisu...

I didn't realise that there were UK based mods on your forums also (i've been having a look around, but am personally too far out of MD now to be of any use if I signed up)... its a shame that maybe they couldn't have come along?!

Maybe next time

 

[bangraman]

I will get around to doing a proper comparison of the Mini vs NH1.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan The headphones that were in use were the MDR-G74SL... which, to me was a good thing, because its probably one of the 'phones that most people (not necessarily heaad-fiers or minidisc-t'ers) will be using... and they're not 'totally' bad.... having listened to all the units as well with both the PX100 and PX200, this is where, after a little while with all three 'phones, I came to my very unscientific conclusion that the MDR-G74SL fits into the Sennheiser lineup almost as a PX150... jack of all trades, master of none

Make that a 'PMX150'

On the other hand, all I can find at local superstores, as far as the new Sony StreetStyle line is concerned, is the bottom-of-the-line MDR-G54LP, with a record store carrying the MDR-G58V. I suspect that the MDR-G54LP will be similar in sound quality to a PMX60.

 

[kurisu]

Maybe KJ_Palmer..he's the only one I know of who'd be close enough. I wonder about Nick Perry [he runs amulation.com, and is a stand-in editor for minidisc.org]..I'll talk to my people and get back to you.

 

[some1x]

Interesting comparison between the top NetMD and Hi-MD players. I upgraded from the N505 to the NH600D, and thought that everything was improved. The N505 simply could not put out bass properly to the ER4P. Also, the NH600D is much more dynamic, and even has an acceptable soundstage with the ER4.