The Wadia CDP thread

[mattigol]

I think it is not exaggerated to say that by and large, people on these boards who auditioned Wadia CDPs, prefer them over over whatever they used before, including Meridian, Cary and other well regarded brands. They seem to simply sound spot-on, detailed, perfectly balanced and extended ad infinitum, have plenty of PRaT, throw a huge soundstage, while most competitors do many things right, but end up having certain (if ever-so-slight) shortcomings.

In light of this observation - which of course you are welcome to challenge - which Wadia would represent a sweet spot in terms of price/performance, both new and used?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

By sweet spot, I assume you mean biggest bang for the buck. I only have experience with the 830, which was their "budget model" a few years ago. But from everything I've read, the 830 has much of the same technology and sound for about 60% less than their top-of-the-line. 301 and 302 are newer versions of the unit I own. If sound were the primary criteria, then you would probably need to look at models further up the line.

Personally I believe that Wadia is a great value because these units allow you to bypass your preamp (or line stage). Mine also works well as a headamp, directly driving balanced HD 650s.

 

[jefemeister]

Best performace to dollar of the more recent players: I'd go with the 830 or the 16i. These are available used for very resonable prices and represet the foundation of the current Wadia models 301/302 and 861. The 16 is over 10 years old so make sure the transport mechanism is still functioning on par. That's really the only thing that breaks on any Wadia and even that is rare. There are still players from the very early 90s out there in full working order.

If you don't mind spending a little bit more, my best overall pick would be the 860. The 860 replaced the 16 and uses the same drive as the current 861. The 16 used a lesser TEAC drive. The 860 also replaced the 16's industrial looking LED display with a slick alpha-numeric one. There is an 860x which is an 860 with 96kHz functionality (as opposed to only 48kHz) on the digital inputs. If you're not using external sources than it's not important. I believe the 860 can be upgraded to full 861se status for not much (relative) money.

As a side note, the 861 was recently discontinued. They may drop a little in price within a year or so as the replacement multi-format players come out.

You could also go the DAC route with something like a 15.

At any rate, anything you get used will hold it's value very nicely for a longer than average time IMO.

edits:

fixed my dates:
W16 was made 1995-'97, replaced by the W860, which was replaced by the W861 ~2000.
W830 was made 1998-'01, replaced by the W301, which was replaced by the W302 in 2003.

in the intrest of disclosure concerning myself, yes I am a former engineer there. I helped design software and hardware for the 301, 302, special edition products, and the new series 9.

 

[mattigol]

Thanks for the suggestions. I am very tempted to audition one.

They seem to be a company that's not only resting on its substantial high end pedigree and cashing in on this, but truly dedicated to find new audiences as well. Firstly, they have become a head-fi sponsor, which only occured to me very recently. Secondly, they offer a substantial and reasonably priced upgrade program that allows even less affluent users to get a player and have it modded to their taste. That's a very customer-friendly, down-to-earth attitude for such a high-end company, selling world-wide.

Is there a company representative posting on head-fi, btw?

 

[warubozu]

Yeah, thanks for the posts so far. I too am intrigued by the Wadia line up of cdps but unfortunately where I live we don't have a audio hifi store that carries or sells the Wadia line up. IIRC jefemeister is a former employee of Wadia.

 

[tkam]

I think your exaggerating a little bit

. Wadia makes some darn nice gear but so do a buch of other companies. I'd take either of my sources over any Wadia that I could even remotely afford.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefemeister Best performace to dollar of the more recent players: I'd go with the 830 or the 16i. These are available used for very resonable prices and represet the foundation of the current Wadia models 301/302 and 861. The 16 is over 10 years old so make sure the transport mechanism is still functioning on par. That's really the only thing that breaks on any Wadia and even that is rare. There are still players from the very early 90s out there in full working order. If you don't mind spending a little bit more, my best overall pick would be the 860. The 860 replaced the 16 and uses the same drive as the current 861. The 16 used a lesser TEAC drive. The 860 also replaced the 16's industrial looking LED display with a slick alpha-numeric one. There is an 860x which is an 860 with 96kHz functionality (as opposed to only 48kHz) on the digital inputs. If you're not using external sources than it's not important. I believe the 860 can be upgraded to full 861se status for not much (relative) money. As a side note, the 861 was recently discontinued. They may drop a little in price within a year or so as the replacement multi-format players come out. You could also go the DAC route with something like a 15. At any rate, anything you get used will hold it's value very nicely for a longer than average time IMO. edits: fixed my dates: W16 was made 1995-'97, replaced by the W860, which was replaced by the W861 ~2000. W830 was made 1998-'01, replaced by the W301, which was replaced by the W302 in 2003. in the intrest of disclosure concerning myself, yes I am a former engineer there. I helped design software and hardware for the 301, 302, special edition products, and the new series 9.

I am very disappointed that many big companies, including Wadia, Esoteric, etc, are moving away from affordable separate DAC's. I mean, what DAC choices does Wadia offer right now? System 9 and 27ix only! Esoteric also only has D01 and D03!

Wadia used to make some very nice-sounding, affordable DAC's in the past.

Do you think there's any chance Wadia may come out with some (relatively) affordable DAC's with I2S (and or USB to I2S) input options?

 

[jefemeister]

LOL, I don't think Wadia ever made something that was affordable save maybe the W12 which was like $1200 is 1994. But Yes, Wadia has some very interesting ideas floating around right now. They're sponsorship and interest in Head-Fi is not an accident. Once the 581 is out of the way, we'll start seeing some very interesting things I imagine.

BTW, Wadia did show a new DAC proto at the recent head-fi meet along with a headamp design concept. Both received warm reviews.

 

[mattigol]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefemeister Their sponsorship and interest in Head-Fi is not an accident.

Wow, interesting prospect! When exactly did Wadia become a sponsor?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattigol Is there a company representative posting on head-fi, btw?

Disclosure: I've been a very satisfied Wadia customer since buying my 830. I bought mine new. Wadia is upgrading my 830 with their 'P' upgrade at no charge. My unit is probably on a Southbound UPS truck at this very minute

What I've learned so far...

1.) Buying the 830 allowed me to sell my Audio Research LS3 linestage (saving money, while improving SQ)
2.) A year or so later, I bought a used balanced cable and went from single-end to balanced in my 2ch rig (again, improvements)
3.) Late last year, after a brief run at headfi, I was ready to sell my recently aquired Aria and just stick with iPod for headfi -- Then JaZZ posted something about Wadia being able to directly drive headphones

-- Next step: Balanced 650s directly from my 830 (nice!)
4.) Couple of months ago I bought K1000s, currently running off my 2ch amp (loven it!)
5.) Yesterday I received 2 couple female XLRs -- I plan to try K1000s balanced directly from the 830
6.) Mine also has digitial ins, which I use for my DVD
7.) Future: As some point I hope to tie a Squeezbox to Wadia's DAC

IMO, my Wadia has been a great investment in high-end audio!

 

[Todd R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore 3.) Late last year, after a brief run at headfi, I was ready to sell my recently aquired Aria and just stick with iPod for headfi -- Then JaZZ posted something about Wadia being able to directly drive headphones -- Next step: Balanced 650s directly from my 830 (nice!)

Hi Kent,
I enabled the volume control on my Cary and tried the 650's balanced. It was nice, I picked up some detail and clarity.
I am anxiously awaiting my new 581 which should be coming in the next couple weeks and will try it with that player as well.

Any disadvantages to driving phones directly from the CD player that you've discovered? The only one I can come up with is I'll have to recable all my headphones

I'll try to post some impressions of the 581 once I get it..
TR

 

[Todd S]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore 5.) Yesterday I received 2 couple female XLRs -- I plan to try K1000s balanced directly from the 830 6.) Mine also has digitial ins, which I use for my DVD 7.) Future: As some point I hope to tie a Squeezbox to Wadia's DAC IMO, my Wadia has been a great investment in high-end audio!

Really curious to hear your thoughts on 5!
6. & 7. So then could could one who uses a pc as a source run through the 830's DAC? I take it no USB though?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd S Really curious to hear your thoughts on 5! 6. & 7. So then could could one who uses a pc as a source run through the 830's DAC? I take it no USB though?

I'm thinking more along the lines of the Squeezbox.* Back shot...

Unit has two types of digital out. Both ***should*** be compatible with Wadia's DAC (I have not tried this).

* Squeezbox acts as a wireless remote appliance, allowing you to easily access your PC's music library.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd R Any disadvantages to driving phones directly from the CD player that you've discovered? The only one I can come up with is I'll have to recable all my headphones

For most headphones, you could get by with retermination to female XLRs. I bought gold plated Neutick for a few bucks each.

Keep in mind, I'm new to headfi (I've gone from Etymotic ER4S to balanced K1000s in about 6 months), so I don't have the (headfi) history you and others enjoy. On the other hand, my Wadia / HD 650 / balanced Moon BDv2 were a hit at the Nashville meet (so I must be doing something right). Disadvantages I know of:

1.) Wadia has a combination of hardwire and software gain controls. For the 830, the hardwire controls are on the inside (I've heard that some of the newer units have the controls on the back???). In my case, I'm currently driving my K1000s off a 100 watt 2ch amp (zero feedback, operating in Class A, etc

). The K1000s (via the 2ch amp) are very efficient, so the internal gain setting needed for K1000s (via 2ch amp) and balanced 650s (directly from the 830) are not the same. Admittedly my situation is not the norm. None the less -- the mechanical gain settings are a consideration when driving multiple cans / amps.

2.) Wadia requires female XLRs. But then again, so do Lavrys and other DACs (I don't consider this a big deal).

I honestly can't think of any other disadvantages. So I'll add three more advantages...

1.) The 830 can drive single-end and balanced concurrently. So it would be possible -- for example -- to drive HD650s balanced and a single-end headamp or 2ch amp without needing to switch cables (the 650s would however be on all the time unless you unplugged them).

2.) The Wadia has a remote control (something not found on all headamps).

3.) You are able to eliminate at least on interconnect cable.

EDIT: Thought of one more potential disadvantage: Outputs are on the back of the unit, making it more difficult to swap phones. On the other hand, IMO it looks less cluttered in a rack.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

One more advantage: Wadia has been good about providing an upgrade path for their products. I just got home after working 2nd shift, and my newly upgraded unit was waiting for me

The 'P' upgrade adds a second power supply board. And one thing experienced headfiers likely already know, power supply is everything, right?

I have to say Wadia's a classy company. They returned my unit with a brand new outer box. Thank you Wadia!!!