The Vintage Dac & CD Player List/Review Thread
Mar 10, 2011 at 6:50 AM Post #61 of 171
I've found a meridian 506.20, linn genki for around 500$ and a MF A3.2CD for 600$.
Which one do you think is the best. I'd like a CDP that is neutral, detailed and can produce "silence" in music so it feels like space (Nicolas Jaar, James Blake for example). I'd rather take good heights than lots of bass. As long as it's tight and accurate bass I'm happy.
 
How long do you think they will live on until the drawer or laser dies?
 
Mar 12, 2011 at 4:30 PM Post #62 of 171
IMO the price on that MF A3.2CD is a little high, I've seen them for less. Your description of what you like has Levinson written all over it. I don't know of any other manufacturer that does the "silence" thing as good as them. Maybe Wadia but the highs are a bit rolled on most of their stuff. Electrocompaniet can come close but their cd player needs to be on isolation cones to tighten up the bass. IMO none of the cd players you're looking at will do exactly what you're looking for. Meridian is known for their depth, warmth, and bottom end impact (not the tightest around). Linn is known for their pace and "agility", tighter and lighter bass than the Meridian but lack the warmth and depth of the Meridian. MF is a good all rounder. Basically, Meridian and Linn are at opposite ends with the MF in between. Whatever you decide on, make sure you run balanced and make sure the other components are capable of running balanced as that will help get more of the "silence" you're looking for. As for how long until the laser dies, hard to say. As long as you get something in good condition, it should last a number of years.
 
Mar 16, 2011 at 11:52 AM Post #63 of 171
Computerparts,
congrats on a great project. I've always wondered how vintage DACs would compare to current ones. I also think that you've been very straightforward about your bias towards tubes ("Give me tubes or give me death!") which makes your comments easier to interpret.
Have you, by any chance, listened to the older dCS DACs like the Delius and the Elgar. Any experence with older Emm-labs and Esoteric DACs? I currently use a Camelot Uther 2.0 with the latest upgrades (24/192 Anagram chips) and am kind of curious as to if it would be worthwhile upgrading to one these or newer DACs like PWD, Weiss or Berkeley.
I'd love to have your thoughts on that.
Best regards
André
 
Mar 16, 2011 at 9:50 PM Post #64 of 171
Thanks Andre. Indeed I am strongly biased towards tubes. IMO a well balanced tube setup can sound very realistic. It is ironic at this time the only tube component in my system is the SFD-1 dac. When I am finished with this project, I will move to a tube setup. I have not heard any Emm or Esoteric dacs. I did hear an Elgar+ I believe it was, in an all Classe setup some number of years ago. From what I can remember, it did all the audiophile things right (imaging, staging, nuances, etc..). It had the deepest soundstage of anything I ever heard but wasn't very accurate in the timber of instruments and could sound a bit thin. The Uther is a very fine dac, although I haven't heard the version with the Anagram chips. I would see no reason to upgrade but I can't comment on the Berkeley, Weiss, or PWD as I've never heard any of those.
 
Mar 16, 2011 at 10:46 PM Post #65 of 171
I don't think the PWD is quite in the same class as the Berkeley, nor would I really expect it to be considering it costs $3k vs. $5K. More realistic Alpha DAC challengers are the new Audio Research DAC-8, and the Accustic Arts DAC-1 MK4. The AA is supposed to have a generally warm sound that could appeal to tube fans. Another option for similar cash is a used Theta Gen VIII S2, or MBL, or EMM.
 
Mar 17, 2011 at 8:26 AM Post #66 of 171
@ computerparts
thanks for the taking the time to answer. I'm rather curious about the Elgar+, but really don't know if it's worth the money since you normally can't get one (used, since they're not in production anymore) for less than USD 5000. There's a lot of stiff competion in that price range, including the BADA and the new Weiss DAC202. I'd guess I probably wouldn't use Classe with dCS, but that's just an educated guess.

@DaveBSC
I was considering the PWD with bridge, since, in this case, I'd have an integrated transport that could make more costlier DACs have a good run for their money. I2S with short distances is, at least from a technical POV, more than welcome.
Since I need a DAC that can work simultaneously as a pre. that limits my choices quite a bit so the some EMMs, dCSs, some Esoterics, the BADA, the new Weiss and the PWD would, theoretically, be on the shortlist. The Cyrus XP + DAC also seems to be an option.

best regards
André
 
Mar 17, 2011 at 11:54 AM Post #67 of 171


Quote:
.
@DaveBSC
I was considering the PWD with bridge, since, in this case, I'd have an integrated transport that could make more costlier DACs have a good run for their money. I2S with short distances is, at least from a technical POV, more than welcome.
Since I need a DAC that can work simultaneously as a pre. that limits my choices quite a bit so the some EMMs, dCSs, some Esoterics, the BADA, the new Weiss and the PWD would, theoretically, be on the shortlist. The Cyrus XP + DAC also seems to be an option.

best regards
André


Ah I see. The Theta Gen VIII also has a built in preamp, but a new S2 is $13K. The original version is regularly available for around $3500 though, and I think the upgrade price from Theta is $3K. Used S2s are much more rare, but I have seen a few around for $5500-6000. You may also want to look at the Antelope Zodiac Gold.
 
 
Mar 18, 2011 at 12:48 PM Post #68 of 171
 
Quote:
Update: Was just doing some listening during the "magic hours". You know, usually late at night extending into the crack of dawn. For me, those hours extend into 11am. I just picked up on a significant difference between the SFD-1 and the Reference 7 that I was unable to detect during my initial listening, which took place in the afternoon might I add. I will start from the beginning. This morning I decided to do some more listening with the Reference 7 to see if anything might have changed. I decided to switch the dithering on due to a certain person insisting I was cutting the fidelity in half by leaving it off. The oversampling was left at 8x. This time around I didn't listen to any of my usual reference tracks. Rather, I left the cd in which was playing from the previous night. To The Secrets & Knowledge by Number One Gun. I was expecting to hear what I heard before, very subtle differences. From the very start I noticed something didn't seem right, or at least not the way I remembered it sounding when I was listening with the SFD-1. I just kept listening anyway. Track 8 came up which is an instrumental. The beginning of the track features 3 strings being plucked separately in intervals from an electric guitar. The very first pluck, I noticed something was definitely different. I had to play it back again to make sure I wasn't imagining things. Sure enough, it didn't even sound like an electric guitar, it sounded acoustic until the rythm picks up and more strings are plucked. I noticed that I was hearing only the start of the note of each pluck, with little decay, and it sounded thin and mechanical. I immediately switched to the SFD-1 to see if I would hear the same thing.

 
Hi Computerparts. Thank you for checking again. The differences you describe as subtle are not subtle in my system at all. No offens but I think maybe you should upgrade your system. I get a realy good sound from the Ref7 with CD7 FV as source. There is nothing awkward or unpleasent. The sound is very detailed and smooth with deep bass and incredible resolution. I just can cite kingwa: It shows how good or bad youre source is. The Ref7 can sound unpleasent but only if the source or something after the Ref7 sounds unpleseant. As it sound pleasent with the SFD-1, your source seems to be the problem in the first place.
If you still have the Ref7 and you used the rca input on input 2, try to use the rca plug on input 3. If you used the BNC on input 2, terminate the rca input on input 2 with 75Ohm. Never use the optical input if you like a quality playback. Toslink increases jitter level by a big amount.
So, no offens (I am cooled down, had some hard weeks).
Greetings
 
Mar 18, 2011 at 1:02 PM Post #69 of 171
hmm what's with the defensive tone? computerparts is merely sharing his opinion of different gear, which is a move that should be encouraged, since it's not easy doing comparisons and writing them down. i understand that you enjoy your setup, but i think it's better if we keep an open mind in audio
 
 
Mar 18, 2011 at 5:44 PM Post #70 of 171


Quote:
 
 
Hi Computerparts. Thank you for checking again. The differences you describe as subtle are not subtle in my system at all. No offens but I think maybe you should upgrade your system. I get a realy good sound from the Ref7 with CD7 FV as source. There is nothing awkward or unpleasent. The sound is very detailed and smooth with deep bass and incredible resolution. I just can cite kingwa: It shows how good or bad youre source is. The Ref7 can sound unpleasent but only if the source or something after the Ref7 sounds unpleseant. As it sound pleasent with the SFD-1, your source seems to be the problem in the first place.
If you still have the Ref7 and you used the rca input on input 2, try to use the rca plug on input 3. If you used the BNC on input 2, terminate the rca input on input 2 with 75Ohm. Never use the optical input if you like a quality playback. Toslink increases jitter level by a big amount.
So, no offens (I am cooled down, had some hard weeks).
Greetings

 
Hi flecko. You might want to re-read my post. I believe I noted that the differences were no longer subtle during that moment. Let's not get get things confused, I never said anything about sounding pleasant or unpleasant. I no longer have the Ref 7 but I did all listening with input 3 by the way. If you get a good sound from the Ref 7 then that's great your system is surely optimized for the Ref 7. My system certainly isn't the best but it is very good at what I built it for and that is for the purpose of my reviews. When building this system, I kept only fairly neutral components within my budget in mind. Can you tell us what your system is? You can see mine at the top of my reviews. The only upgrade I will be making any time soon is the transport and maybe the pre-amp but everything else must stay until I am finished with this project. After this project, I will move to an all tube system and just enjoy the music again. Happy listening. 
 
 
 
Mar 18, 2011 at 6:28 PM Post #71 of 171


Quote:
hmm what's with the defensive tone? computerparts is merely sharing his opinion of different gear, which is a move that should be encouraged, since it's not easy doing comparisons and writing them down. i understand that you enjoy your setup, but i think it's better if we keep an open mind in audio
 



People get defensive about their gear on this site.  Certain brands in particular.
 
Mar 18, 2011 at 9:24 PM Post #73 of 171
 
Quote:
Hi flecko. You might want to re-read my post. I believe I noted that the differences were no longer subtle during that moment. Let's not get get things confused, I never said anything about sounding pleasant or unpleasant

Yes you are right, I got confused here.
But never the less the ref7 sounds very "real" in my system.
 
 
Quote:
If you get a good sound from the Ref 7 then that's great your system is surely optimized for the Ref 7.

It is not optimized especially for the ref7. It is optimised but for a neutral sound. The Ref7 fits in well.
 
Quote:
Can you tell us what your system is?

Audio-GD CD7FV->bnc-coaxial75ohm cable->Audio-GD Ref7 DSP1V5->Jungson xlr cable->Van Look symmetrical passive preamp->Jungson xlr cable->Jungson JA-99C symmetrical classA power amp-> DIY Platino TL (Seas speaker in transmission line made of stone)
The speakers are neutral with a slight emphasis in the region of 50-100hz due to the transmission line design. They are not even expensive but very good.
 
Quote:
People get defensive about their gear on this site.  Certain brands in particular.

People reviewing the Ref7 seemed to be protective to their gear as well. What is understandable because everyone wants to be happy with his system.
 
Mar 19, 2011 at 12:15 AM Post #74 of 171
computerparts, i switched the third jumper to 1 and now have the HDCD/normal levels set to the same. on the previous jumper setting, it appears that normal output runs at -6db due to the PMD200 filter. Additionally I enabled dithering on jumpers 1 and 2, and replaced the JJ e88ccs with a pair of Siemens-Halske e88ccs. The SFD-2 sounds much better than before, although my only qualm is the amount of bass in the low midrange can be thin compared to the rest of the bottom end. All in all, it's still a substantial upgrade from the DAC-1. I think I'll keep the Assemblage D2D mated on. I'm hoping someone might share their experiences with the Assemblage DAC3.0 or 3.1 though, not many show up FS.
 
 

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