The "speed" of headphones
Aug 28, 2015 at 6:25 PM Post #31 of 41
Now, why would full range vs. a more limited range driver be significant?

Because impulse response is not independent of frequency response - they're inherently linked. You can (through some math) get frequency response from impulse response, and a sharper impulse response always implies higher frequency extension. To get a perfect impulse, you would need a perfectly flat response with infinite bandwidth.
 
Aug 28, 2015 at 10:30 PM Post #32 of 41
   
 
 
These are deus ex machina arguments, something magical, a super magnet,  which we will invent  will solve the problem. The principle remains that a heavier diaphragm is harder to move and stop than a lighter one.  All the two of you are saying is that you can  try to overcome this limitation.  There is no guarantee that you will however be successful at least within practical constraints. Sure you can try to come up with some super magnet  to overcome these inherent limitations, maybe one from the Hadron Collider, but it may not be practical.  With stats, the problem has already been solved with  simple lightweight system.
 

 
The above is completely false. Nothing new or magical needs to be invented to solve the problem in real world applications. The technology we already have has proven itself to be suitable.
 
Please provide reliable evidence contradicting my claim.
 
It is an actual fact that the loudest, cleanest, speaker drivers operating at the highest audio frequencies are not made with electrostatic drivers or planar drivers. They are are based on conventional electrodynamic speaker drivers which are very similar to those first devised in the 1920s. 
 
The principle remains that a heavier diaphragm is harder to move and stop than a lighter one.

 
That's a truism. For example it applies equally well to automobiles:  The heavier automobile is harder to move and stop than a lighter one.  However, automobiles that can travel at very high speeds, for example 200 mph and stop in a timely fashion when needed have existed for decades and generally weigh a thousand pounds or more. 
 
Aug 28, 2015 at 11:34 PM Post #33 of 41
   
The above is completely false. Nothing new or magical needs to be invented to solve the problem in real world applications. The technology we already have has proven itself to be suitable.
 
Please provide reliable evidence contradicting my claim.
 
It is an actual fact that the loudest, cleanest, speaker drivers operating at the highest audio frequencies are not made with electrostatic drivers or planar drivers. They are are based on conventional electrodynamic speaker drivers which are very similar to those first devised in the 1920s. 
 
 
That's a truism. For example it applies equally well to automobiles:  The heavier automobile is harder to move and stop than a lighter one.  However, automobiles that can travel at very high speeds, for example 200 mph and stop in a timely fashion when needed have existed for decades and generally weigh a thousand pounds or more. 


We are all entitled to our fantasies.  At least you now acknowledge that heavier things are harder to move.
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 4:20 AM Post #34 of 41
 
We are all entitled to our fantasies.  At least you now acknowledge that heavier things are harder to move.

 
Of course heavier objects are harder to move!   That's not the issue. You claimed that: 
 
 something magical, a super magnet,  which we will invent  will solve the problem.

 
Yet, there is plenty of evidence that whatever is needed has already been invented long ago and has been  widely used for the purpose for decades.
 
Has this knowledge been kept secret from you so that you alone don't know it?
 
Sep 5, 2015 at 3:57 PM Post #35 of 41
Hello, i am kinda confused with this term in the world of audio. When i read a review about headphones, there will be something like "suited for fast music", "not pleasing enough for fast music", and so on. What does that mean? Thank you. Fyi i am not someone who buy high end gears. In fact, i only own <$30 Pioneer

 
In music, speed is often depicted by attack. For base, it is actually easier to describe by pronouncing letters. Like the "b" and the "p". B-base would be like saying a b-beat (b-b-b-b), while a p-beat would be like p-p-p-p. So it is given more weight, typically at the beginning. The sharp stress at the beginning, is an age old trick of giving music "speed". The beat might be just as fast, but the tone is different.
 
You also got that for cymbals, and sometimes these are hit hard, with a short hard sound. Again, plenty of attack, at the beginning. Often times, harshness is used by purpose, and this oftentimes gives the sound a hard hitting sound. You would use that for more ill tempered music, like for communicating anger. All of which humans associate with speed.
 
Now, for cosy music, them cymbals are struck with brushes, gently. Soft. Typically associated with moody music, and typically slow speed.
 
Sonicly, it is more a question if the cans can reproduce aggressive tones. Like the punsh of Metal, or the roughness of rock. This typically is determined on the ability of reproducing the tones that are hard. In particular, attack. Take a liner, and slam it into the table with a bang: To reproduce that faithfully, your sett needs a lot of attack. It needs to be able to reproduce harsh and hard hitting sounds.
 
Precision is not necessarily a good thing in this case. It is all about sounding raw and un-prosessed, and that is often hard for the up-tight and perfect.
 
I got the Nordost Heimdal2 on loan right now, and use it for the HD800. The tonality is about the same as before, but is has way more attack, or speed if you like. When playing something made for high "speed", like En Vogue "Free Your mind". It is supposed to be rough. Hard hitting. Drums are short sounding. Voices are insane, raw like nuts.
 
But the track is not "fast". The beat is not like super fast. It just hits it harder. And with the Heimdal, that aspect improves like crazy, yet the tonal balance remains the same. So I guess that sort of put me in disagreement with others in this thread. Just note that this is fast base, not a slappy one.
 
Speed is also the reasons, why some prefer the Cardas Clear over the Heimdal, as the Heimdal is stressing it more, and the Cardas is more relaxed. These are all cables for headphones, in case you did not know.
 
So, if you know a drummer, or some great musician, ask him how he plays soft, hard, or fast and slow. Cans are typically great on one or the other. A drummer would often even not use the stick, but this brush like thing of theirs. Then just listen in, on how your rig plays soft or hard.
 
If you play hard hitting music a lot, and listen to tight sounding gear, as in well controlled and a bit slow, you probably will find them musically boring for your music. If you find a rough sounding set, that would rock with that hard hitting electric guitar, you probably go: Yeah!
 
Just tried Yello "Oh Yeah", and the Heimdal/HD800 is too fast for that. More relaxed would be better. "The Race" by Yello sounds just perfect. Tight as fun, and fast works insane for that. For En Vogue, it really needed to loosen up, and be more rough, faster (as if that is possible).
 
I have never discussed this with anyone, so there probably are more elegant and precise ways of explaining this.
 
So, I hope this was of use for someone out there.
 
Now, of for some of Nero, like "The Thrill": There is nothing like hard hitting controlled anger. With deep base, hitting hard, with a ton of substance. Yeah!
 
Oct 23, 2015 at 4:18 PM Post #36 of 41
I'm sorry for break the original discussion that has been trough this pages.
But I was wondering if there is any way to "speed up" the headphones using the "wonders" of digital EQ. 
 
More precisely, I want to "speed up" the rhythm guitar on the heavy metal genre.
Is there any way to achieve this? (or emulate the latter?).
 
Oct 23, 2015 at 4:40 PM Post #37 of 41
  I'm sorry for break the original discussion that has been trough this pages.
But I was wondering if there is any way to "speed up" the headphones using the "wonders" of digital EQ. 
 
More precisely, I want to "speed up" the rhythm guitar on the heavy metal genre.
Is there any way to achieve this? (or emulate the latter?).

 
Headphones are generally pretty fast (their impulse responses die off quickly), so as has been said earlier in this thread, what your probably hearing is a frequency response that you're not finding optimal for listening to metal. The low open E on a guitar is ~82Hz, and the high open E is 2 octaves above at ~328Hz; if your cans are hot in that range, then you might find the rhythm guitar a bit overwhelming. Play with some cuts on the EQ that cover that range and see how you like it.
 
Oct 23, 2015 at 4:57 PM Post #38 of 41
   
Headphones are generally pretty fast (their impulse responses die off quickly), so as has been said earlier in this thread, what your probably hearing is a frequency response that you're not finding optimal for listening to metal. The low open E on a guitar is ~82Hz, and the high open E is 2 octaves above at ~328Hz; if your cans are hot in that range, then you might find the rhythm guitar a bit overwhelming. Play with some cuts on the EQ that cover that range and see how you like it.

 Perhaps I should mention I was talking about IEMs.
No cans here. 
 
Oct 23, 2015 at 6:41 PM Post #40 of 41
IE80? 
wink_face.gif

if so they have a massive and long low end(like really slow decay in the sub), so EQuing most of it down would be a good start. but there still is a limit to what you can reasonably do with EQ. it's the one pair I could never get to sound neutralish without sucking, when I was fooling around trying to EQ all my IEMs to sound like another one. 
 
(I think the dog avatar should face right)
ph34r.gif

 
Oct 24, 2015 at 2:05 PM Post #41 of 41
 Perhaps I should mention I was talking about IEMs.
No cans here. 


Buy your favorite iem (which you probably have done) then add the alo Rx amp into the mix. Enjoy.

I love this thing, it gave me greater extensions high and low, with fast realistic decay and transients to boot!
 

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