[chesebert]

I have been for a the past week trying to decide how is my new HD650 different from my old HD600 and which one I want to keep. In the process of doing that, along with hundreds ours of listening test, CD/cans swapping. I think I finally came to a conclution that HD650 is the better of the 2.

The difference is subtle but profound. HD600 is a great set of cans. Great tone, great high, balanced low and a nice mid section to round off a beautiful package. Since my cans are of some age, it sits super fluuffffy on my head. At first hearing HD650 (after about 180hrs of burnin) I am hearing the same great tone, same great high, nice balanced low, more so than 600 (you all know that by now) and a beautiful mid range. But what I can not figuer out was why I seem to enjoy HD650 more than HD600.

So with that question hovering in my head all week long...I have spent the last 3 hours doing intense A/B between the two using some of the CDs I have always used to test (you can probably find threads on those) and I had a revelation. The following sentense is simple yet profound.

Listen to HD650 and you are there (at the show, concert, recording studio..) and with HD600 you are listening to a great pair of speakers.

That's it..that's the difference, however subtle and minute the difference is. HD600 is so close to that line of "being there" but HD650 crossed that line and took you there.

Plz share your thoughts

 

[spike33]

Wow....

That's so simple, it boggles the mind!

 

[bill99hawk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert I have been for a the past week trying to decide how is my new HD650 different from my old HD600 and which one I want to keep. In the process of doing that, along with hundreds ours of listening test, CD/cans swapping. I think I finally came to a conclution that HD650 is the better of the 2. The difference is subtle but profound. HD600 is a great set of cans. Great tone, great high, balanced low and a nice mid section to round off a beautiful package. Since my cans are of some age, it sits super fluuffffy on my head. At first hearing HD650 (after about 180hrs of burnin) I am hearing the same great tone, same great high, nice balanced low, more so than 600 (you all know that by now) and a beautiful mid range. But what I can not figuer out was why I seem to enjoy HD650 more than HD600. So with that question hovering in my head all week long...I have spent the last 3 hours doing intense A/B between the two using some of the CDs I have always used to test (you can probably find threads on those) and I had a revelation. The following sentense is simple yet profound. Listen to HD650 and you are there (at the show, concert, recording studio..) and with HD600 you are listening to a great pair of speakers. That's it..that's the difference, however subtle and minute the difference is. HD600 is so close to that line of "being there" but HD650 crossed that line and took you there. Plz share your thoughts

Cool! I order my HD650s shortly ago after asking questions to the differences between them. Looking forward to getting them.

 

[applebook]

I generally agree.

Compared to the 600, the 650 has a slightly more prominent mid-range that is most noticeable with vocals, deeper and tighter bass, no mid-bass hump, less of a veil in the upper-mid range, very slightly recessed treble, better resolution and imaging, and far superior soundstage depth. Aside from the bass, to me, the most noticeable quality of the 650 over the 600 is the deeper and more complex soundstage. Most of these differences are augmented further once going balanced.

I still like the 600 quite a bit. It's a less "offensive" headphone in that it takes less time to appreciate, and its airier treble is delightful.

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook Compared to the 600, the 650 has a slightly more prominent mid-range that is most noticeable with vocals, deeper and tighter bass, no mid-bass hump, less of a veil in the upper-mid range, very slightly recessed treble, better resolution and imaging, and far superior soundstage depth.

It would seem, in fact, that HD 600 has less of a mid-bass hump, and a more even upper midrange with no dip just below 200 Hz.

 

[chesebert]

Frequency response is not the whole story... listen and you will understand...taking sections of frequency response and analyze them, HD600 may very well keep up with HD650 but just listen and you will get it (assume your source/amp is up to the task)

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert Frequency response is not the whole story... listen and you will understand...taking sections of frequency response and analyze them, HD600 may very well keep up with HD650 but just listen and you will get it (assume your source/amp is up to the task)

Oh, I completely agree. I'm sure frequency response can't convey something so subtle as how realistic the headphone is. But they do shed light on specific statements about frequency response, like "mid-bass hump" or "veiled upper midrange".

For example, they can demonstrate that the DT 990 is more bassy and less neutral than the DT 880:

It may well be the case the bigger bass or dipped upper midrange in the HD 650 actually works towards making it a better and more natural headphone. I'm not disputing any qualitative judgment, just the factual description of the sound being less humped or veiled, etc.

 

[applebook]

The 600 bumps up slightly in the lower-mids, which is actually almost as high as the lowest FQ and quite a bit higher than the lowest, while the 650 registers a bit higher as it crosses the rest of the spectrum going toward the low-end.

At around the lowest FQ, the 600 is lower than the mid-bass, while the 650's lowest FQ is actually higher than its mid-bass, so in relative terms, the 650 doesn't exhibit the "hump" due to stronger bass, not because its mid-bass registers lower than that of the 600.

As for the veil, the 650's treble is generally higher than the 600 except for one crucial upper-high peak that probably accounts for the 600's airer and more prominent treble (?). The "veil" of the 600's dip in the upper-mids, is less of an issue with the 650.

 

[pbalcer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert Listen to HD650 and you are there (at the show, concert, recording studio..) and with HD600 you are listening to a great pair of speakers.

I have exactly the same impression about HD650 and HD600!

Except in my case the difference is not so subtle. It is a big one.
I think it may be because of different source and the amplifier...
What do you use to drive your HD650 and HD600?

BTW, when I first got HD650 they sounded really awful.
It took more than 200 hours for my HD650 to open up.

Cheers!

 

[acs236]

Regardless of what the graphs say, I found the 650 to have more even bass (less midbass hump) but overall elevated bass. To me, that's the difference that stands out.

 

[xxlMusikfreak]

I can agree in a way. I have both and I think that the 650 bring me into the music and let me enjoy it a lot more while I'm more analyzing with the HD600.
650 get's a lot more use than the 600.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbalcer I have exactly the same impression about HD650 and HD600! Except in my case the difference is not so subtle. It is a big one. I think it may be because of different source and the amplifier... What do you use to drive your HD650 and HD600? BTW, when I first got HD650 they sounded really awful. It took more than 200 hours for my HD650 to open up. Cheers!

Eastsound E3 -> PPA/Steps

 

[pbalcer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert Eastsound E3 -> PPA/Steps

Form what I read, Eastsound E3 is a decent machine...
I've never heard PPA (I'm using my own transistor-based
DYI amp). Could it be that PPA "flattens" the sound?
Did you have a chance to compare PPA with a tube amp?

I'm asking because the biggest difference between HD650
and HD600 I perceived was that HD600 sounded "flat" to me.
(Aside from HD650 being just a bit darker but more refined.)
As if the soundstage had no depth. And I couldn't pin-point
the position of instruments as accurately as with HD650.

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbalcer HD600 I perceived was that HD600 sounded "flat" to me. As if the soundstage had no depth.

Agreed. This is more pronounced with a good source.

 

[robm321]

Very subtle difference. That's why I still have my 600's why pay $100's more for a very minor difference. I spent some time comparing as well. Not as much as you though.

650 = you are there (well it's in your head anyway). What will you say when they come out with 700 or whatever the next rev will be since you claim they are "live" - the next rev. will be even Live er? or live er er er.

Going from live to listening to speakers is a very dramatic change. The difference between the 600,650 is subtle.

Things aren't adding up here.

I think they are just a little better but not worth the price difference and the 650 gives up some qualities the 600 keeps.

Am I wrong? If I am make sure to flame me