[caml]

Hi everyone !
 
I've been looking for a pair of headphones for several weeks and spent countless hours doing internet research. It led me to try several models, none of which convinced me so far (details below). I'm coming for advice because I'm a bit lost and don't know where to head my quest next.
 
I listen to all sorts of music : rock, metal and punk from the 70's, 80's and 90's, pop music from all eras up until today's, blues, boogie, reggae, dancehall, dub, jazz, classical, opera, movie soundtracks and even a touch of hardcore/gabber and hardstyle.
 
I used to play bass guitar, that probably has influenced my sonic taste.
I like deep, strong, empowering, kicking bass/sub bass. I don't know if I'm a basshead since I don't particularly listen to EDM or Hip-Hop and it looks like most folks in the basshead threads do, but to give you an idea of my inclination : the double bass in a jazz trio? I want my chest to feel it like I was live at the gig. The bass guitar and kick drum in a rock or metal band? I want my body to have no choice but obey the rhythm they're playing. The sub bass in an instrumental dub song? I wanna drown in it. You get the idea. Now I realize this is a lot to ask to headphones, which are by definition located on your ears only. Anyway the closer I'll be to live-like bass feeling, the better. I don't think that's being a bass-head, but rather just liking music the way I perceive it when played live.
 
However, I don't like an emphasized upper bass because I feel it makes everything else sound muffled. Sometimes I dip it slightly with an eq. I like an overall “well articulated” sound.
 
I like rich, full bodied lower mediums because I enjoy the grain of rich voices.
 
I'm very sensitive to the 1 kHz region and always eq it down a few dbs.
 
As for the treble, well... Let's say I like them gentle. I can't stand sibilance and I'd much rather have mellow treble at the cost of a loss in realism. Shrill sounds are physically painful for me and they can quickly disqualify headphones.
 
I don't care that much about soundstage, although I admit a large soundstage, when present in a headphone, is very enjoyable. But it's already very difficult to find a tonal balance that suits my taste, so soundstage is secondary at the moment.
 
To make it short : I think I'm looking for a warm, lush sounding pair of closed back around-ear (circumaural) headphones with excellent sub bass rendition, good vocal presence and mild treble, with a well defined but smooth sound. I need isolation so I want closed back headphones or IEMs. Portability is not an issue, it's for home listening. I don't care for looks at all.
 
As for the price range, at first I thought I could get something nice for 150€, but now I realize I will probably need to go up a bit and have decided upon a new 300€ limit. I'd like to avoid spending more at the moment, but the more I read the forums the more I think I will have to pay more. I'm curious to read your opinions about this...
 
Here are the models of HP I have tried in stores : Focal Spirit One S, Sennheiser Urbanite XL and several Bose and Sony models.
I then decided to order various recommended models from online retailers with good return policies and give them all several days of trial : RHA MA750, Shure SRH 840, Audio Technica M50x, Creative Aurvana Live ! 1 & 2, and JVC HA-SZ1000... all of which I have returned.
 
 

Spoiler: In the spoiler : mini impressions of all these models and why I returned them all

I apologize in advance if my comments seem harsh to lovers/owners of the below mentioned headphones. I know that some of those HP are well regarded in the head-fi community. It's just the way I felt about them with my ears, and it was also affected by the price tags which seemed quite steep to me considering the lack of fun I had with all those. I was probably a bit naive regarding the kind of SQ you can expect from a sub 150 bucks piece of gear
 
In store :

1. Focal Spirit One S : it was like listening to music with my head immersed in a pool of mud : huge sloppy upper bass presence making the rest blurry.
2. Sennheiser Urbanite XL : some bass, complete lack of body presence in the mediums, mild highs, very distant sounding. Really unpleasant.
3. Several Bose and Sony models, some of which were half decent but not memorable, especially considering the ~180€ price tag

 
At home :

1. RHA MA750 (IEM). This is supposed to be a bass heavy IEM. Right. It does indeed reproduce bass frequencies very cleanly and it can go quite low before roll off, but its overall tonal balance was still way too bright for me, and the bass was so "tight" and fast that it was not enjoyable to my ears.
2. Shure SRH 840 : Dramatic lack of sub bass, upper bass too pronounced, decent medium and vocal presence, slightly harsh and sloppy highs. Not impressed.
3. Audio Technica M50x : good sub bass when equ'ed, decent bass kick, no vocal body presence whatsoever, treble that make me grind my teeth. Sounds tinny despite the ok lows.
4. Creative Aurvana Live ! : well, actually this budget fella has the kind of tonal balance that I favor and was the first one in my tests not to quickly irritate me. Lively and well articulated lows. Smooth and lively vocals. Mild treble. It's the only one of all my trials that I could listen to without equalization. However, it also sounded a bit blurry, not well defined. A few years earlier, I would have kept it, but now I demand more of my gear.
5. Creative Aurvana Live !2 : a worse sounding CAL.
6. JVC SZ1000 : impressive sub bass (for headphones) and concert-like physical kick if using a proper eq. Surprisingly wide soundstage. But that's it. Apart form the good lows (when equalized, otherwise you won't particularly notice them), it's quite a crappy sounding piece of equipment, regardless of taste IMHO. It's very coloured : the frequency response seems all over the place.

 
As for my sources, all headphones I tested at home have been so on 3 different setups :
 
Laptop computer (lossless files, Foobar, EqualizerAPO) → spdif out → Poppulse 1796 DAC → Yamaha A-S500 home amplifier HP out (the best sounding)
 
Laptop computer (lossless files, Foobar, EqualizerAPO) with VIA integrated chipset → headphones out
 
Samsung Galaxy S2, Poweramp playing high bitrate Musepack compressed files -> HP out
 
Now I know a headphone amp is probably worthwhile and I have a Fiio E12 on the way. Although differences were obvious on certain songs between these 3 setups, I doubt the lack of dedicated amp influenced my decisions to the point of not liking headphones I would have liked otherwise.
 
That is a long piece of text and I apologize for it. I thought it would be good to give as much details as possible about my taste in sound
 
I'm confident lots of you guys will be able to give me good advice
 
Thank you.

 

[Youth]

If you are only gonna use them at home i suggest open

 

[caml]

Thanks, but actually I have quite a noisy surrounding at home, therefore if I want to properly enjoy music I will need a good closed back.

 

[Youth]

I think you will like NAD VISO HP50.

 

[caml]

I was starting to consider the NAD as well. Have you listened to it yourself ?
 
Also started to consider the B&W P7 and the Denon D600 by the reviews. Although that would be above my planned budget but anyway...
 
I have B&W 602 S3 speakers at home, quite a nice, rich, warm sounding pair, capable of going quite low for a bookshelf set. If their headphones have a sound signature close to that of those speakers, I can not not like em.
 
 
What would be the best pair for me between these 3 ?

 

[cel4145]

Definitely see if you can demo the B&W P7s. Not a basshead headphone, but it does have good bass. I'd say more like M50X level of bass, but with an overall step up in sonic quality. Here's a review: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sumptuous-and-sonorous-bowers-wilkins-p7

Then for more of a basshead headphone you should try, the Vmoda M100. Good bit more bass than M50X, but also better sonic quality all around.

 

[caml]

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Actually the B&W P7, from reading all the reviews and looking at the graphs, seem to have some emphasis in the 1000-2500 Hz area that will probably be too much for me.
 
Today I ordered a Denon D600 from the "famous South American river with great return policy". If these don't do, I'll try the V-Moda M100. Actually I was intrigued by the latter from the start of the quest but after reading all the negative comments about being uncomfortable to wear, I forgot about them.

 

[caml]

Hi there,
 
Decided to post a follow up with my findings until now. Mostly so that people can find it in the future while searching for impressions on the following headphones. Let me start by saying I still haven't found the one. The quest is still on.
 
After the previously mentioned pairs, I have now been trying the Denon D600 and the Focal Spirit Classic (FSC). Two very different headphones. The D600 I did want to try because it seemed to have good bass response. The FSC because of the good reviews and Tyll from Innerfidelity saying it does have a sound signature close to the NAD HP50 (apart from soundstage) which seems to be revered at the moment, but the FSC was easier for me to try.
 
Short Denon D600 impressions :
 
So I received the D600 a week ago and have given it about 20 or so hours of listening plus several nights of break-in.
 
The strong point of this pair is its ability to hit low and strong. I've actually rediscovered bass lines and drums from various rock albums with it. It was quite impressive and I had several wow moments, stunned by the almost body felt experience of a good kick drum or aggressive rumbling bass line. Very nice. I had never experienced that before with headphones, not even with the JVC SZ-1000. It goes very low, it is well textured, very “organic”... Bass if fast, not sloppy, but not "too tight" either... it growls... And all this with no eq-ing or just a couple dB's on some older recordings. Whereas the SZ-1000, while very capable, needed strong equalization to reproduce bass to its fullness.
 
Unfortunately, if the bass and sub-bass is good, I find the other frequencies lacking in quality. Vocals are not recessed, but they lack a bit of life. Veiled they are not, but I wouldn't mind if they were a bit more forward. I haven't found the highs to be lacking, nor are they aggressive. However, treble certainly lack definition. It sounds kinda blurry up there to my ears.
 
IMHO, the soundstage is very large for closed back headphones. This was particularly evident when switching back and forth between this and the FSC, whose soundstage is tiny.
 
A bigger issue than SQ with the D600 is the fit. What kind of E.T. in the whole damn universe have those been made for ? I don't think I have a small head. I'm quite a tall guy, and on some of the older headphones I have lying around here I have to adjust the headband to its largest setting. I have a Stetson hat sitting here on my desk and the inside sticker says "size L"... Well, let me tell you that the D600 on its smallest setting fits very loosely on this "size L" head of mine. I have to overcome this by pushing the top of the headband forward on top of my skull, and fiddling with it for a minute or two before getting an ok seal. But even then it never feels snug. That said, it is quite comfortable, the pads are very large and soft. Wearing glasses is totally fine. But I never once got a perfect seal.
 
Overall, the D600 would be a good pair of headphones for 110€. Too bad they sell for 392€ on Amazon now... Which is insane. I'm probably going to return them, but despite all the cons I just listed they're the least bad cans I tried until now, and by a fair margin. I find it quite astonishing how much all of these headphones cost despite all of them having obvious flaws.
 
Shorter Focal Spirit Classic impressions :
 
Now let's move on to the FSC shall we. That's going to be short I'm afraid. Sure, they do nothing really badly. Highs are quite precise yet non fatiguing. Vocals are well textured. As for the lower frequencies... let's say there are some, and that it will be probably pleasant enough for most people (apparently, who I am to judge really). I mean it sounds ok, not especially tiny, it's almost punchy on recent pop songs... quite a politically correct lower end I might say. But that's not ok for me. The cut off frequency is ridiculously high. I can hear the bass lines being truncated on some notes. And where's the rrrrumble ? Where's that hit in the chest that you almost get with the D600 ? And where are the frequencies below 35 Hz ? Well, none of these are in the FSC for sure. Even with strong equalization I could not get it to actually sound alive on the lower end of the spectrum. That's too bad because otherwise, like I said, it's very easy to listen to for hours on... that is, if you're not the kind of person fully expecting to have your body shaken by the rhythm when you press the PLAY button.

One side remark about the fit. The FSC is very snug, the pads are very small for a circumaural and I needed to rest it for a few minutes every 30 minutes or so. And the snugness makes it outright painful with glasses. I'm sure it will loosen up with time, but I'll never know for sure since those are back in the box, ready to be returned.
 
Side considerations about bass reproduction in headphones
 
I'm starting to realize that by head-fi standards I probably am a bass-head. It's a real surprise. I understand now that a lot of headphones that are liked (by this community but also external reviewers) are dramatically lacking in the lower spectrum, and it amazes me considering the praise they get. Most headphones sound to me like they are boldly cutting the lower spectrum and forbidding me to enjoy a proper, complete sound reproduction. I now wonder if headphone designers are aware that instruments such as drums, double bass, bass guitar, or the left hand of a piano keyboard actually exist, or if they've ever heard them live ?
 
Anyway, I'm receiving a pair of V-Moda M100 tomorrow. I didn't think I would end up trying a pair of trendy/teenage looking bass-head headphones at my age, considering that I don't even listen much to the loud phat stuff that's been recorded in the past 15 years or so. But if that's what it takes to enjoy a full sound reproduction, so be it !

 

 

[cel4145]

Sounds like you'll definitely be happier with the M-100s over the Focals.

 

[caml]

Well I hope so ! It's getting a bit tiring really, all these trials and research. I wouldn't mind to stop listening to gear, and start sitting back and enjoying the music

 
I will post a follow up either way. I find impressions and peoples quests for gear always interesting so I find it normal not to keep my impressions to myself.

 

[cel4145]

It's the only way to do it, though. It's bit like buying a car. You can't know what car is going to drive best unless you actually drive them

 

[caml]

Sure. That reminds me when I bought a motorbike 10 years ago, there was this huge multi brands dealership... that didn't allow any form of test ride! The sales director even went as far as saying he himself had never tried any vehicle before buying. I was so astonished I almost got in a fight with the guy, before walking away. The amazing thing is they still exist, so there actually are people buying bikes without trying!

Anyway I feel my ears have become a lot sharper since I started all this critical gear listening. I wonder if I'll have to settle for a 3.000 bucks pair... or if I'll just end up with a pair of Beats for my bass cravings... (never actually heard any of those).

 

[cel4145]

Just don't set your expectations too high. You can't get that kick in the chest bass feel from headphones. Need a big sub for that

 

[caml]

Yup! Actually if I find D600-like bass with cleaner upper spectrum and a proper fit, I'll be okay :-D

 

[Youth]

How about TH600? Or D7000 if you don't mind buying used.