[skumrat]

No issues with LDAC on Samsung A71 and old Oneplus 3T. Usually switching to WiFi on 5GHz helps in that scenario because 2.4GHz version tends to interfere with BT...

I changed to 5GHz and it worked! Now adaptive bitrate actually scales up and down according to Qudelix app, usually fluctuating from 492kbps to 660kbps, and occasionally hitting 990kbps. Went back to 2.4GHz and it stays pegged at 330kbps at all times. Didn't know WiFi could interfere so heavily with Bluetooth like that.

 

[davidgao007]

this little thing is really amazing, I brought it for my ie900 when I'm too lazy to turn on my dap, but then I find it can change my Echobox in-ear from unbearable to good listening if applied the preset auto eq, and so is Focal Listen, even if at most time I'm listening mahler and shostakovich.

 

[Nick24JJ]

Hey guys, how do you have the sample rate set up, on your Android phones?

If I will leave the sample in User system preference (default) and all the rates in Codec selected, it sets it to 96.0 kHz. So, it upsamples the stream.

If I would like to listen bit-perfect, I have to disable everything besides 44.1 kHz, in Codec LDAC FS. So, I disable (untick) 48, 88.2 and 96 kHz.

But when I am listening to some Ultra HD quality songs from Amazon Music, in Qudelix it says: 44.1 kHz, 24 bit, 909 kbps. In the Amazon App, it says track quality: 24 bit/192 kHz, Device POCO F2 Pro: 24 bit/48 kHz, Output: Bluetooth device: 24 bit/48 kHz.

So, does it downsample it to 44.1 kHz in this case?

 

[michusxx]

Hey guys, how do you have the sample rate set up, on your Android phones?

If I will leave the sample in User system preference (default) and all the rates in Codec selected, it sets it to 96.0 kHz. So, it upsamples the stream.

If I would like to listen bit-perfect, I have to disable everything besides 44.1 kHz, in Codec LDAC FS. So, I disable (untick) 48, 88.2 and 96 kHz.

But when I am listening to some Ultra HD quality songs from Amazon Music, in Qudelix it says: 44.1 kHz, 24 bit, 909 kbps. In the Amazon App, it says track quality: 24 bit/192 kHz, Device POCO F2 Pro: 24 bit/48 kHz, Output: Bluetooth device: 24 bit/48 kHz.

So, does it downsample it to 44.1 kHz in this case?

Question is if we may have two resampling proceses here:
first - if Amazon app really plays 192kHz then it is resampled to 48kHz by Android
second - because of 44.1kHz settings in Q5k stream have to be resampled from 48kHz to be send over LDAC...
It may turn out that we should set 48kHz in Q5k just to prevent the second resampling.
???

 

[Nick24JJ]

Question is if we may have two resampling proceses here:
first - if Amazon app really plays 192kHz then it is resampled to 48kHz by Android
second - because of 44.1kHz settings in Q5k stream have to be resampled from 48kHz to be send over LDAC...
It may turn out that we should set 48kHz in Q5k just to prevent the second resampling.
???

Well, I don't know how the Amazon App works but on my POCO F2 Pro phone, running Android 12, in the Developer settings, I have the following options:

Bluetooth audio sample rate: Use system preference (default), 44.1 kHz, 48,0 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96.0 kHz

If I leave it at the default, it will play at 96 kHz. That's what's showing in the Qudelix App.
Taking in consideration that the majority of the music on Amazon and YouTube is 44.1, I think it's better to set it at 44.1, on Qudelix. That way the higher bitrate is downsampled to 44.1 but you're still listening to the majority of the music, bit-perfect.

I'm also trying Qobuz with UAPP. Qobuz is OK, if you're willing to search every song you would like to listen, literally, and add it in a playlist.

 

[Sphere 57]

Well, I don't know how the Amazon App works but on my POCO F2 Pro phone, running Android 12, in the Developer settings, I have the following options:

Bluetooth audio sample rate: Use system preference (default), 44.1 kHz, 48,0 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96.0 kHz

If I leave it at the default, it will play at 96 kHz. That's what's showing in the Qudelix App.
Taking in consideration that the majority of the music on Amazon and YouTube is 44.1, I think it's better to set it at 44.1, on Qudelix. That way the higher bitrate is downsampled to 44.1 but you're still listening to the majority of the music, bit-perfect.

I'm also trying Qobuz with UAPP. Qobuz is OK, if you're willing to search every song you would like to listen, literally, and add it in a playlist.

Is it bit perfect though? How do you know that it isn't being converted up and then back down again?

 

[Nick24JJ]

Is it bit perfect though? How do you know that it isn't being converted up and then back down again?

I do not know, that's why I am asking, here.

My common sense says that, if I will set it to 44.1 kHz on my phone and, even though unnecessary, will also disable all other sample rates on Qudelix, and the song is 44.1 kHz, then there is no need for any further sampling.

PS: In the App, Qudelix also suggests 44.1 kHz

 

[Sphere 57]

My concern is that setting LDAC to 44.1 is maybe just adjusting the Bluetooth output and has nothing to do with what's going though the Android processor beforehand. Even if you are using UAPP, as far as I remember UAPP makes no promises about how it works through Bluetooth.

I don't understand why, but I know that some record labels and studios consider converting 48/96/192kHz to 44.1kHz to be a bad idea, that is why they mix in 174.4. Presumably doing it twice is worse.

 

[michusxx]

I do not know, that's why I am asking, here.

My common sense says that, if I will set it to 44.1 kHz on my phone and, even though unnecessary, will also disable all other sample rates on Qudelix, and the song is 44.1 kHz, then there is no need for any further sampling.

PS: In the App, Qudelix also suggests 44.1 kHz

The problem lies in Android that resamples audio output to 48kHz unless streaming app uses dedicated control (for example though UAPP, Hiby app or similar).
I've just done few tests and checked Info about audio params in Poweramp Equalizer that works with different streaming applications:
- in default settings DSP processing (representing Android audio path rate) shows 48kHz while output is Qudelix with LDAC set at 44.1kHz
- if I force BT LDAC settings though Android Developer Settings then Poweramp shows forced sampling rate as DSP rate while output is still the same Qudelix at 44.1kHz
- after BT reconnect Android Developer Settings of course resets to defaults and DSP rate again is 48kHz
So, I'm not shure but resampling from 48kHz (Android) to 44.1kHz (Q5k setting) may occur while playing regular apps (Spotify for sure, Amazon - I don't know, maybe unless it uses special access).
And Qudelix suggestion is very good but it is more general in context of optimizing LDAC performance.

 

[Nick24JJ]

My concern is that setting LDAC to 44.1 is maybe just adjusting the Bluetooth output and has nothing to do with what's going though the Android processor beforehand. Even if you are using UAPP, as far as I remember UAPP makes no promises about how it works through Bluetooth.

I don't understand why, but I know that some record labels and studios consider converting 48/96/192kHz to 44.1kHz to be a bad idea, that is why they mix in 174.4. Presumably doing it twice is worse.

Okay, I don't know how Android audio works but since my phone is giving me these various sample rates, that I can set in the Developer settings, and at the same time I can set 44.1 kHz fixed, in the Qudelix app, then why should Android alter anything? I mean, if the song is 44.1 and everything is set at 44.1, nothing else is required, right?

 

[Nick24JJ]

The problem lies in Android that resamples audio output to 48kHz unless streaming app uses dedicated control (for example though UAPP, Hiby app or similar).
I've just done few tests and checked Info about audio params in Poweramp Equalizer that works with different streaming applications:
- in default settings DSP processing (representing Android audio path rate) shows 48kHz while output is Qudelix with LDAC set at 44.1kHz
- if I force BT LDAC settings though Android Developer Settings then Poweramp shows forced sampling rate as DSP rate while output is still the same Qudelix at 44.1kHz
- after BT reconnect Android Developer Settings of course resets to defaults and DSP rate again is 48kHz
So, I'm not shure but resampling from 48kHz (Android) to 44.1kHz (Q5k setting) may occur while playing regular apps (Spotify for sure, Amazon - I don't know, maybe unless it uses special access).
And Qudelix suggestion is very good but it is more general in context of optimizing LDAC performance.

Okay, I see! Can I ask you something? If Android resamples audio output to 48 kHz, why then do I have the option to select 96 kHz on my smartphone? Additionally, everything plays at 96 kHz, if I will leave it at default settings. So, does my phone upsamples everything to 96 kHz?

Furthermore, do you mean that I should not trust my phone or the Qudelix app, when it comes to the actual sample rate used? Which App can show me that, then?

 

[Sphere 57]

Okay, I don't know how Android audio works but since my phone is giving me these various sample rates, that I can set in the Developer settings, and at the same time I can set 44.1 kHz fixed, in the Qudelix app, then why should Android alter anything? I mean, if the song is 44.1 and everything is set at 44.1, nothing else is required, right?

If you use a USB DAC that indicates incoming sample rate you will find that android devices never give 44.1 from the USB port, unless you use UAPP or a similar app. It is widely reported that Android OS resamples everything to 48kHz. All of my Android devices output either 96 or 192kHz as standard, both multiples of 48.

 

[michusxx]

Okay, I see! Can I ask you something? If Android resamples audio output to 48 kHz, why then do I have the option to select 96 kHz on my smartphone? Additionally, everything plays at 96 kHz, if I will leave it at default settings. So, does my phone upsamples everything to 96 kHz?

Furthermore, do you mean that I should not trust my phone or the Qudelix app, when it comes to the actual sample rate used? Which App can show me that, then?

You have the option to set different sampling rate because some applications use direct audio access (and bypass Android default one) - for example UAPP.
Yes, if you have 96 kHz then everything is upsampled to 96 kHz. Like with this unfortunate 48kHz value. Unless application have possibility to switch sampling rate according to source media rate then audio output will be resampled to set value.
I do not say that you should not trust you phone or app but I want to say that they might not show whole picture. And at the end there might be adaptation step between, depending on used access method.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

The main thing you want to avoid is Android resampling a multiple of 44.1 to 48kHz. Down or upsampling are fine as long as you stay within the same multiple. Android does a quick, dirty, horrendous job converting 44.1 to 48kHz.

Bluetooth codecs are fine, they encode then decode with very little degradation. Android is the enemy.

So for Tidal streaming for instance, or anything CD quality, you want to use UAPP on your source with the “Optimized for Bluetooth” setting On, and select 44.1kHz in the Developer Options. Then the Qudelix app will confirm the input is at 909kbps - that’s the gold standard. 606 is okay too. Even 303 is better than 990 if that’s from a 44.1 file upsampled to 2x48=96kHz.

If you are using Spotify, who don’t work with UAPP, or Amazon HD which works at 48kHz anyway, then there is nothing you can do, and you can also use aptX Adaptive or HD without a care. Unless you stream Spotify from a bit-perfect DAP, in which case, since I believe Spotify works at 44.1 natively, you should also select 44.1 in the Developer Options.

 

[Nick24JJ]

The main thing you want to avoid is Android resampling a multiple of 44.1 to 48kHz. Down or upsampling are fine as long as you stay within the same multiple. Android does a quick, dirty, horrendous job converting 44.1 to 48kHz.

Bluetooth codecs are fine, they encode then decode with very little degradation. Android is the enemy.

So for Tidal streaming for instance, or anything CD quality, you want to use UAPP on your source with the “Optimized for Bluetooth” setting On, and select 44.1kHz in the Developer Options. Then the Qudelix app will confirm the input is at 909kbps - that’s the gold standard. 606 is okay too. Even 303 is better than 990 if that’s from a 44.1 file upsampled to 2x48=96kHz.

If you are using Spotify, who don’t work with UAPP, or Amazon HD which works at 48kHz anyway, then there is nothing you can do, and you can also use aptX Adaptive or HD without a care. Unless you stream Spotify from a bit-perfect DAP, in which case, since I believe Spotify works at 44.1 natively, you should also select 44.1 in the Developer Options.

Thank you for your clear explanation!

From what you say, I cannot do anything. Better leave everything at default for my use, then? I am listening to Amazon Music all day long using my 2 sets of FiiO UTWS5. Anything I can do there or leave everything at default?

Sometimes, I am using my Qudelix 5K to listen to Amazon again. Nothing I can do there, either, correct? So, even though I can set the Bluetooth audio sample rate at 44.1 kHz both on phone and in Qudelix app, Android bypasses that and upsamples everything to 48 kHz and then? Downsampled again to 44.1 in Qudelix? Or? Because that's what's showing in the Qudelix app, 44.1 is showing...

I am referring to Bluetooth only.

Right now I'm listening to Qobuz via UAPP with my Mojo 2 and everything is bit-perfect. No problem there but I will never use my Mojo 2 with my phone.

PS: I really really wish Qobuz wouldn't be so tragic when it comes to interface, music discovery and suggestions!