The Qudelix-5K thread

[BenF]

What is "note weight"?

https://crinacle.com/2020/04/19/the...-list-update/#elementor-toc__heading-anchor-4

 

[Andrew_WOT]

https://crinacle.com/2020/04/19/the...-list-update/#elementor-toc__heading-anchor-4

And it cannot be measured and doesn't show on FQ response why? It clearly states that it's just a balance between lower and higher frequencies.

The main thing that affects note weight is the balance between lower harmonics (which includes the fundamental) and upper harmonics. A focus on lower harmonics makes the sound rich and deep, while a focus on higher harmonics makes the sound clear and airy. For instance, a heavy note weight would make an instrument like a piano sound more “grand”, while a lighter note weight would make it sound more like an upright.

Exactly as @jsmiller58 pointed out here.

And what standard definition of "weighty" sound states
https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/

Weighty - Good low frequency response below about 50 Hz. A sense of substance and underpinning produced by deep, controlled bass. Suggesting an object of great weight or power, like a diesel locomotive.

 

[BenF]

And it cannot be measured and doesn't show on FQ response why? It clearly states that it's just a balance between lower and higher frequencies.

Please read carefully:
"The main thing that affects note weight is the balance between lower harmonics (which includes the fundamental) and upper harmonics."
Harmonics != frequencies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic

And what standard definition of "weighty" sound states
https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/

That has nothing to do with note weight.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

They are still frequencies, aren't they, why you say they won't show on the frequency graph?

A harmonic is a wave with a frequency that is a positive integer multiple of the fundamental frequency

 

[BenF]

They are still frequencies, aren't they, why you say they won't show on the frequency graph?

Seriously, read the article.

 

[mugbot]

Seriously, read the article.

That would absolutely be visible on a FR plot.

 

[BenF]

That would absolutely be visible on a FR plot.

Take a look at FR of 5 different amps, and try telling me which one will have thicker notes at 80, 300 and 2000 Hz (or any other value).

 

[Andrew_WOT]

You are probably talking about Harmonic Distortions as these are the only harmonics electronic device produces, it is not a musical instrument like trombone. And the lower they are, the better. Not sure if tonal character of DAC/AMP can be defined by a balance between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. degree of distortion, it should be well below 0.001% anyway or it will sound super bad, harsh and gritty.
Headphones though can have up to few percent, which can affect tonality as stated in your original link, but with super low TDH in DACs, this is likely not the case.

And yes, this stuff is easily measured.

 

[mugbot]

Take a look at FR of 5 different amps, and try telling me which one will have thicker notes at 80, 300 and 2000 Hz (or any other value).

Define 'thicker notes' in some way that's not just audiophilese or the whole exercise is meaningless. Like checking which amp is more sour.

 

[Safeinthemountains]

This looks really complicated...
I consider myself as far from an "audiophile", but what i learned over the years is that all of this is mainly subjective. For example the Meze 99 Classics are considered by a majority of people as "really good" headphones (for the price...). I was about to buy a pair of these eyes closed, but I gave a trial in a local shop and I was disappointed; the bass is invasive to me, it feels not balanced at all in terms of FR, and to me these are not good at all (and I listen mainly to electronic/ambient music).

So trying to use the same words to describe things that are personnal and subjective is almost impossible in my opinion.
At least one can compare different kinds of headphones/earphones and put them it different categories.
But to say "this is better than this" is nonsense... unless the FR is extreme to the point only meds can be heard, or the V shape is really too pronounced.

Also remember that human ear is adaptative; if at first you find the music "to bassy" or "too weak" (lack of bass), after some time your brain will get used to it, and your perception will change. This is the same for volume, if you listen let's say at volume 40 for some time and go down to 20, you will feel it is too low, if you stay in the silence for some time, then you start listening to the same track at 20, you'll fell the level is OK, if not a bit too high.

As for note weight...
Harmonics refers to the different basic singles tones (sines) that compose a complex sound; there is the fundamental (the frequency of the sound itself) plus various amounts of 2x,3x,4x... etc tones that make the "timbre" of an instrument, or a voice, or any sound...

I do not fully understand this "note weight" concept, especially because the variation in the amound of each harmonic, changes the harmonic content of the sound, and the timbre.
When you filter it out, typically with a low-pass filter, you also change the harmonic content. Depending on the slope of the filter and the cutting frequency, the modification can be light or really important; in the second case you can completely modify the timbre, and make it sound completely diffferent.

The only thing I can think of, are slight modifications of the amplitude of the harmonics, that lead to slight modification of how the instruments/voices and the whole music sounds. But then it is directly related to the FR, or the EQ that will have an impact on this, and this impact will be quite different along the whole frequencey range.

All in all this is really complex, because the FR can impact the fundamental of certain notes, and the harmonics of other ones, and the effect is quite different.

To me, the best is to have the most flatter/neutral response (source+amp+headphones/speakers) and then if doesn't feel right to you (bassy, weak, or not balanced) add an EQ.
It is quite easy to have flat response for the source, a bit less for the amp, but still feasible, but the speakers/headphones are almost never neutral, they always add "color" the sound, and more than any other part of the chain.

In my experience, I could sometimes feel that one DAP/Amp feels subjectively warm or dry, but it is really subjective. For the headphones it is obvious; some will sound warm, some dry, and some washed out or too bassy, not balanced at all, something is missing...

And remember as well that in the end the way the music has been recorded, mixed, equalized... counts A LOT, and this you have to live with it !

For me the sound of the Qdelix (ES9219P) is perfecly fine; well balanced, not too analytic, not too warm, but I had the same opinion on the ES100 (Asahi Kasei AK4375a) , and the UP4 (ES9218P) I had for some time.
I "feel" I prefer the sound of my Hiby R3 (ESS ES9028Q2M +OPAMP) to my R5 (Cirrus Logic CS43198 DAC); but is it not just biased by knowing the brand and model of DAC inside ???

All in all, since I started listening to music in the 80's, I've passed from Vinyl/cassette (noise, crap FR, flutter and so on) to CD, then MP3 CD players, then HDD players (with OGG Vorbis), and flash/memory based players( OGG and Flac) and I feel at this stage, even the entry-level players sound more than good enough, I don't need to run after even newer standards, codecs, players, DAC's that will empty my wallet, fill my SD-cards faster, for very little gain...

Signal-to-noise above 80-90 dB cannot be heard except for classical music where the dynamics is bigger, the same for bit depht; 16-20 bits are enough, and sampling frequencies above 20-22Khz is a waste of storage space; there is a lot more to hear in between 20 and let's say 10000 Hz (pretty high already), the 10000-22000 Hz are just here for the shape/timbre of the sound


Sorry for the disruption...

 

[arar]

Define 'thicker notes' in some way that's not just audiophilese or the whole exercise is meaningless. Like checking which amp is more sour.

The latter is easy, though. Just lick it.

 

[InvisibleInk]

I'm outta here

 

[BenF]

You are probably talking about Harmonic Distortions as these are the only harmonics electronic device produces, it is not a musical instrument like trombone. And the lower they are, the better. Not sure if tonal character of DAC/AMP can be defined by a balance between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. degree of distortion, it should be well below 0.001% anyway or it will sound super bad, harsh and gritty.
Headphones though can have up to few percent, which can affect tonality as stated in your original link, but with super low TDH in DACs, this is likely not the case.

And yes, this stuff is easily measured.

Not with the Frequency Response measurement.

...
I do not fully understand this "note weight" concept, especially because the variation in the amound of each harmonic, changes the harmonic content of the sound, and the timbre.
When you filter it out, typically with a low-pass filter, you also change the harmonic content.

You can only filter the harmonics/overtones with a low pass filter when you have a single frequency signal.
If you have have a 300Hz signal, and want to get rid of 600Hz, 900Hz, 1200Hz etc harmonics, you can put a 600Hz low-pass filter.
Can't do that with a complex signal like music - you'll lose all the music above 600Hz...

...In my experience, I could sometimes feel that one DAP/Amp feels subjectively warm or dry, but it is really subjective.

And if you would look at the Frequency Response of all these DAP/Amps, they would all be perfectly neutral (within 0.1dB), despite not sounding the same.
You can't tell a warm sounding amp from a cold sounding one based on FR.


On that note (pun intended), I announce my retirement from the discussion about harmonics.
Please use the Sound Science forum https://www.head-fi.org/forums/sound-science.133/ or Google https://www.google.com/ for further research.

 

[DBaldock9]

On Head-Fi, it seems like when threads go too far off topic, for too long, the Admins tend to come in and clean up the thread.

 

[logiatype]

Has anyone noticed dropouts on bluetooth calls? I use this for zoom calls and have moments where audio cuts out.

Had to return my unit today. Not useable on the latest firmware for calls. Dropping out during calls is not acceptable. No issue with any TWS or ES100. Total shame.