[meat01]

DIY is a rewarding experience and is a lot of fun. It seems like a cost savings at first, but as you get into it and want to build more things it adds up.

 

[bg4533]

I hear a very significant difference between some very cheap stock cables and my DIY cables. I have cables with a variety of connectors and silver plated copper, Canare Starquad, copper magnet wire and copper coax. The difference between my cheapest DIY cables and stock cables is much more significant than the difference between my DIY cables. And more expensive isn't necessarily better. With my Gilmore Dynamic I really like a pair of cables with Eichmann Bullets and Belden 7986LC I just built (estimated cost almost $50). The cables sound a bit too dark and the highs are recessed on the PPA. With the PPA I prefer Neutrik connectors and silver plated copper (~$10).

 

[Tech2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyskraper but what if you silver coat it and litz braid it?

lmao

 

[Tech2]

As for the subject of DIY cables:

I do it because I like to. I already owned all of the tools and associated equipment. It's just an extension of the hobby, IMO.

I'm not sure that my DIY ICs sound any better than a RadioShack IC or worse than botique ICs. What do know is that I get the botique feel and heft without the price, and the smug satisfation that I built the IC at a fraction of the cost. Besides, they just look cooler than a RadioShack cable.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyskraper but what if you silver coat it and litz braid it?

Then it's still a cr@ppy cable.

 

[Garbz]

Personally I can hear the difference between say silver and copper. And I preferr copper. Changing wires to my speakers also yielded huge improvement in bass, but then i took it up about 8 guages. Other then that I activly use a $10 cable in my home setup.

 

[diredesire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by l_simon_l Well, if you are goint to build amps, troubleshooting is a pain in the butt, but you will learn from every error, and this forum is great for asking questions. If you are interested in getting into DIY, get the equipment and you won't regret it.

http://www.all-spec.com/cgi-bin/fccg...=cat&sp=weller
The Weller WLC100 is on sale right now, 39.99 + 13$ MIR = ~27$ start
As far as tools go, that is. If you are very good at following directions, and have a basic knowledge of electronics, or have a good common sense (this electrical circuit is equivalent to this one, even though they look different etc) you shoul dhave a fine time making CMoys and Cables.

Don't burn yourself, and ask lots of questions. Those are a few tips from someone who was in the same position a few months/years ago

 

[JWFokker]

Some people believe different cables sound different based upon a considerable array of variables. Whether it's copper or silver, 20 or 22 gauge, how many conductors, whether it's solid or stranded, whether its regular oxygen free copper or whether it's silver plated. They'll even get down to connectors and argue about the plating material, whether it's gold or rhodium. The fact of the matter is that if you have a cable of adequate gauge, properly shielded or otherwise protected from EMI (braided) and solidly connected to each component, you will not hear the difference. If you do, you're imagining it. It's called psychoacoustics. You're hearing things because you believe or expect that you will. You're looking for changes that aren't there and your mind is 'finding' them.

That said, you can build a better quality cable for less if you know how and pay attention to what you're doing. The parts cost of a cable is dirt cheap. You'll spend more on connectors that you will on the cable material itself. It's definitely worth it, and the value of it all increases the more you make. You can make a high quality cable for a fraction the price you'd pay at retail. And besides, the equipment you buy for making cables can then be used for building amps and other electronics crap. I started with cables, then modding amps and then building amps. The quality of sound I get from all this junk is considerably better than what I would have gotten had I invested it in retail products. Do they make a headphone amp on par with the Millett Hybrid anywhere near $100? I don't think so.

 

[-Paolo-]

Thanks for your input all of you, I've decided to hold on until I get my finances straight, and then venture off into the world of DIY. Since it is cheaper, I might be able to build cables for a few things in this house... Then maybe build some for friends and so on.

But the only reason I want to start DIYing is for a portable amps, though I don't have the proper earphones yet, so I'll take it one step at a time. (I could even say that soldering will help me understand electricity and circuitry a lot better for school)

My plans for DIY include
CMoy Amp
Mini to Mini Cables
Mini Splitter
Mini to RCA
Componet Cambles

Since most of you say that there is no difference, but in price, I figure why not?

 

[Alick]

Quote:

You can't polish a turd. You can use the best materials and know what you are doing and it will only sound as good as the source or amp. Are you telling me a good cable can make everything sound 25-50% better?

No, people tend to look at this from the wrong angle. Anything (equipment, connector or cable) that you put it the signal path will degrade, not improve the sound. The trick is to minimise the degradation. So the best cable (or amp or anything else) in the world will not improve the signal, but a poor cable can certainly make everything sound 25-50% worse.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Paolo- Thanks for your input all of you, I've decided to hold on until I get my finances straight, and then venture off into the world of DIY. Since it is cheaper, I might be able to build cables for a few things in this house... Then maybe build some for friends and so on. But the only reason I want to start DIYing is for a portable amps, though I don't have the proper earphones yet, so I'll take it one step at a time. (I could even say that soldering will help me understand electricity and circuitry a lot better for school) My plans for DIY include CMoy Amp Mini to Mini Cables Mini Splitter Mini to RCA Componet Cambles Since most of you say that there is no difference, but in price, I figure why not?

Sounds like a good plan. Keep us posted and good luck!

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWFokker fact of the matter is that if you have a cable of adequate gauge, properly shielded or otherwise protected from EMI (braided) and solidly connected to each component, you will not hear the difference. If you do, you're imagining it. It's called psychoacoustics. You're hearing things because you believe or expect that you will. You're looking for changes that aren't there and your mind is 'finding' them.

Well said. This is exactly true.

There MAY be a difference between a "pure crap" cable and a "good" cable, but not "good" and "uber-Cardas-solid-silver-rhondium-over-silver-plated-connectors-machined-with-0.000000000000001 inch tolerance" or whatever. Let's say a RadioShack RCA interconnect has a 24 AWG signal wire and a copper grounding strap. An audiophile thinks it sounds like crap. So he goes and builds his own with teflon insulated, silver plated copper which is, oh, 20 or 22 AWG. It's only twisted, not shielded, and it suddenly sounds magnificant.

Is it the silver plating? No, skin effect is rubbish. They silver plate teflon wire because of the oxidation problems with (most) teflon insulating techniques. Does it sound better because teflon is a better dielectric and not as capacitative between signal and ground or signal and signal? No, audio signals have such a low current (what, like the uA scale or something?) that you'd never get any charge buildup or conductance along the wires' insulation, which I must remind you, are only touching from the twisting. PVC is a great dielectric. I doubt you could build much of a capacitor with it if you TRIED, let alone would audio signals be able to get through it.

No, the DIY cable sounds so much better because the RadioShack RCA interconnect is "low grade". It's got a thin cable, plastic connectors and doesn't look cool, so it's expected to be low quality. The DIY cable looks great, is made of better materials, has really nice connectors, so the builder expects it to sound great. He spent money on it, so it DOES sound better. If he had picked it up off the street somewhere and figured he'd give it a shot with his equipment, it probably wouln't sound any different because he wasn't expecting to hear a difference.

Now, I'm not saying RadioShack cables are good or that you shouldn't build your own cables, I just think it's important to do it for the right reasons.

Also, I'd like to see what purists think of their fancy DIY cables after doing a blind A/B with the proper A/B switch. Of course if it reveals that they can't hear the difference, they'll probably blame it on the switch itself. The poor quality wire inside it, the extra solder joints and physical contacts of the connectors, etc.

Now look, I don't mean to be shoving my opinion down your throat, and if you can REALLY hear the difference in a truely blind test, go ahead and spend money on your DIY cables - I don't care. If you think an extra solder joint or connector contact will degrade the signal an audible amount, go ahead and think that. However, I think it's important for a newbie to get strong arguments from both sides so that when they start building, their expectations aren't either way. It's much easier to make an objective decision when you don't have expectations. It's basic psychology, any textbook will talk about it. It's similar (I think) to how your memories of old events are effected by current mood. If you're ecstatic, old memories with friends will seem like the best time in the world. If you're pissed, all the flaws and bad moments of your memories will come out and that's all you can think of. I think you get where I'm going with this...

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Paolo- Thanks for your input all of you, I've decided to hold on until I get my finances straight

I think a lot of us should follow this train of thought.

 

[RnB180]

I did a blind test between a popular copper cable and a silver DIY variant.

IT was close and when I mean close it was listening to the characteristics of over tones that were recreated, but
I picked the right cable 4 out of 4 tries blindfolded using a 320 bitrate mp3.

as small as it may be, IMO cables matter.

So someone can say it doesnt matter. Well I think those folks are close minded, as I ran my own personal comparisons and came to the conclusions sonic differences are indeed audible. BLINDDFOLDED

Thats my 2 cents, and you can tell your opinion and heres my opinion cables matter and I proved it to myself.

another post a while back in the cables forum, stated that a member experienced excessive brightness with his zu cable before even knowing what the cable was made of (silver alloy). He was a firm believer of sonic differences in cables shortly after finding out that it was a silver variant.


also since headphone cables are notorious for thin guage, poorly assembled characteristics a recable will most definately have a large potential of sonic alteration.

 

[Emon]

Silver vs copper may make a difference since silver IS a better conductor than copper and that's clearly measurable.

It's not always that we're close minded. I mean, I think speaker cable matters, but speakers are drawing way more current than headphones. I even bought two rolls of 50' teflon insulated, silver plated copper wire for an HD600 cable back when I thought it would make a difference. I also bought quite a few connectors, probably spend something like $50 on it total. I'm still going to make the cable and I'm almost hoping it will make a difference because I spent $50 on it, but I'm going to try to remain as neutral as possible. My buyer regret is lessened by the fact that the wire is rather nice, and I like working with teflon insulation and any amps or cables or whatever I make with it will boost the resale value should I ever decide to part with them.