The Official Sony MDR-Z1R Flagship Headphone Thread (Live From IFA 2016)
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Jun 18, 2017 at 5:19 PM Post #10,621 of 11,341
i suppose it depends on what you mean by an "objective standard", but we have established standards/benchmarks that we use to measure and calibrate in the sciences, engineering, industries, architecture, trades and the list goes on. and these objective standards aren't set in stone. they are revised as our knowledge base increases.

Beg to differ here. Very familiar with the clarity and precision of objective standards in architecture and engineering. That caliber of standards can put a building in the ground, a spacecraft beyond our solar system, and when necessary, settle a dispute in court. For all the reasons listed in these discussions, the standards in question are not at that level of precision or correlation.

Just need to put a realistic focus on the measurement technology as it applies to the purpose of reproducing music.
Feynman said: The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.

Generally speaking, we are all too quick to 'believe' the expeditious.
It's fairly easy to comprehend a FR chart. But that's not anywhere near as relevant or useful as listening to a hundred live music sessions.
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 6:32 PM Post #10,622 of 11,341
I haven't read the last 300 or so posts, so pardon me if I'm repeating something.

I thought it was general knowledge that comparisons between measurement rigs isn't a good idea due to inherited differences in each setup.

Maybe Innerfidelity's coupler has a resonance at 10 khz that the Head-Fi one doesn't.
*snip*
Didn't see that raw data was posted
 
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Jun 18, 2017 at 8:26 PM Post #10,623 of 11,341
Herb! Thank you for coming here! Help us make our headphone lives enjoyable rather than obsessive!

"In my experience, once a 'measurements person' sees the measurements he or she will never again be able to listen to the measured object objectively. They will hear what they think the measurements say they should hear." Yes.
Yeah...like seeing the calorie/fat content of an item you want on the restaurant menu. You have already gained the weight.
 
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Jun 18, 2017 at 9:20 PM Post #10,624 of 11,341
I purchased the Z1R three months ago and use them for home listening paired with WM1Z. On the go, the WM1Z is paired with the Layla's. Its been a while since I visited the site, I have been enjoying my music. I was surprised when I read the past few posts and it was like some forgot one of the rules of this hobby, what sounds good to one person, might not for the other. Never be disrespectful, if you don't like something, it's OK, but don't tell others that its not good. If you can, always audition before buying. I do not enjoy bright cans, too fatiguing.
I have been thoroughly enjoying the Z1R and wish there was a way to take this sound with me on the go. (I fall asleep many times with them on). They are warm and smooth, I am smiling writing this because I am listening to them now. Just find your favorite Album/Artist, relax, close your eyes and let the music take you away. (To me they are that good, so if they sound good to you, enjoy them).
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 9:38 PM Post #10,625 of 11,341
My god, I just read through the whole diatribe of hatred at the other community we can't name here. Talk about group think. A bunch of people seem to have gotten together, told each other they were special and possessed the truth that the sheep of the world couldn't or wouldn't grasp, they all then agreed to their joint exceptionality and have seemingly formed a cult. What I find ironic is that they vehemently and venomously spew angry accusations at head-fi, call everybody who doesn't agree with them controlled Jude zombie's without ever considering they themselves might be suffering from the very ailment they ascribe to head-fi. It is priceless and classic group think. I often go there and read so the vitriol that passes as the musings of the anointed and wise is very familiar to me. Yes head-fi is not perfect, but I'll take the sometimes over-enthusiastic posts of gear obsessed fans over the overtly jaded and negative who see the entire hobby and industry as a conspiracy any-day. I wish I knew how to bleat like a sheep so I could give them the evidence of my dulled and addled conformity.

It is a shame as the level of knowledge seems to be very high, sadly I can't say I am as convinced that the social skills or self-awareness necessarily follow suit. It is also sad to see some regular head-fiers over there slagging the community and other members so openly and with little compassion or respect. The reward seems to be they are told by the truth-holders that they to are part of the all seeing and wise order, and this knowledge anoints them as capable missionaries who must walk among we ignorant head-fi savages, trying to let daylight into our dark and backward minds. Even if we are deluded fools, we are a nice community and I will take nice and less knowledgeable over brilliant but angry and quick to temper minds. There are some in society who take pride in saying, well I don't pull punches, I tell it like it is, and people who can't handle the truth of my way are weak and need to grow up. Well I was raised to realize that simply having an opinion or point of view didn't mean that you weren't obligated to still present it in a socially conscious, respectful way.

And yes, I see the irony in my post as clearly I'm being less kind than perhaps I could, or maybe should. I will probably feel bad after posting this, but it is difficult to be constantly subjected to that pulsating animosity and just continually turn the other cheek so this time I have decided not to. And rest assured, the bashing of head-fi and the membership there is not a passing thing, it seems to be a treasured past-time with all of the requisite backslapping and hear hear good man that goes along with it.
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 9:47 PM Post #10,627 of 11,341
You can buy two ZMF Eikons for the price of the Z1R. Let that sink in.
I could buy 4 LCD2Fs for the price of one Utopia. If people like the Z1R and respond to the signature isn't that okay? Plus some do put a premium on comfort and man the Eikon is heavy so that could be a factor for some as well. Live and let live mate. And no you couldn't actually, the street price of the Z1R is typically below the MSRP. Many owners here paid well less than $2000, I know I did. I would be curious how many actually paid full MSRP? Some, I'm sure, but I would be surprised if the majority did, but I of course could be wrong and freely admit that.
 
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Jun 18, 2017 at 9:49 PM Post #10,628 of 11,341
You can buy two ZMF Eikons for the price of the Z1R. Let that sink in.

And you can buy 2 Nissan GTRs which goes faster on the Nürburgring for the price of a Ferrari, but some people just want a Ferrari, so what's your point?

There's no new revelation you are telling us here you know, and you aren't smarter for stating such "facts". Performance alone doesn't dictate price or value.
 
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Jun 18, 2017 at 9:54 PM Post #10,629 of 11,341
irony alert?

if that's your belief then fine, believe what you like. just try to avoid asserting it as a fact in future because then you might be asked to prove it.
Where's my flyswatter...
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 9:54 PM Post #10,630 of 11,341
I could buy 4 LCD2Fs for the price of one Utopia. If people like the Z1R and respond to the signature isn't that okay? Plus some do put a premium on comfort and man the Eikon is heavy so that could be a factor for some as well. Live and let live mate. And no you couldn't actually, the street price of the Z1R is typically below the MSRP. Many owners here paid well less than $2000, I know I did. I would be curious how many actually paid full MSRP? Some, I'm sure, but I would be surprised if the majority did, but I of course could be wrong and freely admit that.

Sure but the Utopia is the better headphone when compared to the LCD2. In this case, the pricer headphone beats the more affordable offering (for the record, I think the Utopia is overpriced). The same does not hold true in the case of the Eikon vs the Z1R.
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 9:55 PM Post #10,631 of 11,341
Jun 18, 2017 at 9:56 PM Post #10,632 of 11,341
You can buy two ZMF Eikons for the price of the Z1R. Let that sink in.

I did let that sink in...and I don't want even one ZMF Eikon, so that's cool with me!
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 9:58 PM Post #10,633 of 11,341
My god, I just read through the whole diatribe of hatred at the other community we can't name here. Talk about group think. A bunch of people seem to have gotten together, told each other they were special and possessed the truth that the sheep of the world couldn't or wouldn't grasp, they all then agreed to their joint exceptionality and have seemingly formed a cult. What I find ironic is that they vehemently and venomously spew angry accusations at head-fi, call everybody who doesn't agree with them controlled Jude zombie's without ever considering they themselves might be suffering from the very ailment they ascribe to head-fi. It is priceless and classic group think. I often go there and read so the vitriol that passes as the musings of the anointed and wise is very familiar to me. Yes head-fi is not perfect, but I'll take the sometimes over-enthusiastic posts of gear obsessed fans over the overtly jaded and negative who see the entire hobby and industry as a conspiracy any-day. I wish I knew how to bleat like a sheep so I could give them the evidence of my dulled and addled conformity.

It is a shame as the level of knowledge seems to be very high, sadly I can't say I am as convinced that the social skills or self-awareness necessarily follow suit. It is also sad to see some regular head-fiers over there slagging the community and other members so openly and with little compassion or respect. The reward seems to be they are told by the truth-holders that they to are part of the all seeing and wise order, and this knowledge anoints them as capable missionaries who must walk among we ignorant head-fi savages, trying to let daylight into our dark and backward minds. Even if we are deluded fools, we are a nice community and I will take nice and less knowledgeable over brilliant but angry and quick to temper minds. There are some in society who take pride in saying, well I don't pull punches, I tell it like it is, and people who can't handle the truth of my way are weak and need to grow up. Well I was raised to realize that simply having an opinion or point of view didn't mean that you weren't obligated to still present it in a socially conscious, respectful way.

And yes, I see the irony in my post as clearly I'm being less kind than perhaps I could, or maybe should. I will probably feel bad after posting this, but it is difficult to be constantly subjected to that pulsating animosity and just continually turn the other cheek so this time I have decided not to. And rest assured, the bashing of head-fi and the membership there is not a passing thing, it seems to be a treasured past-time with all of the requisite backslapping and hear hear good man that goes along with it.
Why do you think they have a "dislike this" option? How paranoid and egotistic is that?

Very thorough and articulate summation, Sonic Defender.
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 9:59 PM Post #10,634 of 11,341
And for the record here people, a very curious thing occurred in that Jude/head-fi bashing thread in the place I can't name. One poster decided he needed to prove how Jude needed help from Bill-P, which is fine, learning is always good. I'm getting to my point. The logic behind the Bill-P reference was that he was a very respected member there. I have no doubt if it is the same Bill-P I believe it is. Anyway, Bill-P went on to say that even looking at Tyll's measurements of the Z1R he felt it was actually quite good and not much different from a Stax headphone that he respected quite a bit. Nobody suddenly discussed that their expert witness actually said that the Z1R measurements didn't really seem very problematic to him. They all just ignored that little gem as if it wasn't mentioned. Funny. Hopefully I captured the essence accurately of what Bill-P said, I don't want to go back there and read again so if I have at all misrepresented what Bill-P was saying I am sorry and it was unintentional.
 
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Jun 18, 2017 at 10:05 PM Post #10,635 of 11,341
Why do you think they have a "dislike this" option? How paranoid and egotistic is that?

Very thorough and articulate summation, Sonic Defender.
Thanks mate.
 
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