The Official Eddie Current FOUR 45 Thread
Sep 25, 2014 at 3:06 PM Post #211 of 646
  I believe that we do not speak of the same thing.  I was refering to the 2 transformers that sit behind the 4 tubes in the "old" picture.

 
I think you are confusing the two. The one with the transformers on top is the production version. The one with the transformers inside the chassis was the initial run. Both have external power supplies. 
 
Sep 25, 2014 at 3:52 PM Post #212 of 646
   
I think you are confusing the two. The one with the transformers on top is the production version. The one with the transformers inside the chassis was the initial run. Both have external power supplies. 

 
AH... too bad ! I prefered the "clean" version with the transformer inside the chassis :frowning2:
 
Sep 25, 2014 at 6:08 PM Post #213 of 646
I am using vintage globe 45s with WE 417A as drivers, stock rectifiers.

I wonder if purrin is reading this, it seems that my demo 4-45 is not exactly like the ones in the photos. Mine is a two box amp with separate power supply. At the main box there are no protruding transformers. I wonder if this is the same as the current production ones.

Anyway, my immediate impressions after about 2 hours casual listening are very positive. I had the amp run for an hour. It should be fully burned in as this is Craig's demo 445 which was used in shows and meets.

I think that the 445 is really special with the HD800. It drives the HE6 very well too despite high power demands. The one very pleasant improvement upon the WA5 is it is simply smooth. There are no rough edges. The highs, mids and lows are very well put together, and flow as a cohesive whole. And the soundstage is magical and holographic. I think it made my HE6 sound like what the WA5 did to the HD800 as regards soundstage. The HD800 sounded out of my head for almost any song I threw at it, even mp3s on Spotify, whereas the WA5 only had such an effect on certain good recordings like Cassandra Wilson's Blue Moon.

Both amps are detailed but the 445 is slightly more so in a more realistic way. Sometimes I think the WA5 renders micro details in the highs better as the 445 sounds a bit recessed in the upper mid range to the highs. I suppose the detail is there but it is just recessed in volume. I can understand why some might think the 445 is less detailed than some other top end amps. The word is smooth, not detailed. I do have an organic sounding DAC so I think the details are even more smoothed over. In comparison with the WA5, it has noticeably more "macro" detail, letting you get a good view of the entire soundscape rather than focus on one or two micro aspects. It is therefore "musical" and "smooth".

Impressively it does have quicker transients than the WA5, making it the faster more "Stax" like amp. It sounds lighter and less muddy or "lush" for that reason.

As to the cons or things I expect more from the amp, I tend to think that there is a noticeable reduction in bass quantity from the WA5 but better bass texture. I do not think it hits as hard as the WA5 at all. I have not been able to assess bass extension yet. But it does have less bass bloom and may be regarded as more natural. I do not think it detracts from enjoyment though looking at a whole. I suspect modern 45 tubes such as the EML 45 might give the 445 more bass weight.

There is also less extension to the highs, as discussed above it is ever so slightly recessed in the upper mids to highs. Cymbals still sound sparkling though. This is more or less subjective as I do enjoy how this aspect renders a much smoother sound as a whole.

Finally, I agree with others who say this is a bright amp. It is tonally bright but neither sibilant nor harsh. Certainly it is not so bright that I cannot enjoy the stock HD800 with it. Sibilance and lack of smoothness are reasons my HD800s have been seldom used with by WA5. To the contrary, 445's smoothness makes it a perfect match for the HD800.

I have no doubt that it is the better amp compared to the WA5, but honestly I expected it to be MUCH better given the rave reviews. The reality is both amps when using premium tubes sound more similar than different. But this is a good thing, as I was in fact afraid that the 445 would sound too solid statey for my taste. No, it is still a tube amp, with warmth and lushness that makes tubes so desirable.

Finally, I would say it is not a coloured or euphonic amp. Maybe tube rolling will help, but I have not got any goosebumps yet, though I did think to myself "God, this is really good" once or twice today.

I will need to do more listening and real SPL matched A-Bing between the two amps, but these are my initial impressions.


Your impressions are consistent with mine. As I've indicated, the 4-45 bass is pushed back deeper in the stage, and it's on the leaner
sounding side compared to other EC amps.

Keep in mind that 45s are very different from 300Bs. No bloom, but delicate treble. Allow a few more hours for tubes to burn in and also to get accustomed to the sound.

The EML 45s are more bloomy, have more bass impact, an more of a wall of sound effect.

BTW, what sources, DACs, TTs are you using?
 
Sep 25, 2014 at 7:18 PM Post #215 of 646
Your impressions are consistent with mine. As I've indicated, the 4-45 bass is pushed back deeper in the stage, and it's on the leaner
sounding side compared to other EC amps.

Keep in mind that 45s are very different from 300Bs. No bloom, but delicate treble. Allow a few more hours for tubes to burn in and also to get accustomed to the sound.

The EML 45s are more bloomy, have more bass impact, an more of a wall of sound effect.

BTW, what sources, DACs, TTs are you using?


I agree. I am in some ways glad that the 445 is leaner sounding as I do not want it to sound too much like the WA5, for a change. Delicate and sophisticated are the words I should use. And silky smooth / free of grain, too.

I am using the AMR DP777 hooked up to my computer via the Audiophelio PP1.

My 445 is from the initial production run, it does look better. Craig says the amp is exactly the same but different chassis.
 
Sep 25, 2014 at 9:03 PM Post #216 of 646
I wonder if he'll do another run with them separate. Because I would happily pay more for the original chassis.
 
Sep 25, 2014 at 9:16 PM Post #217 of 646

 
It does not look as exciting as it seems in the official photo. It is considerably smaller in size than the new chassis which I find a good thing as I do not have much space for audio gear.
 
Sep 26, 2014 at 5:31 AM Post #218 of 646
 
 
It does not look as exciting as it seems in the official photo. It is considerably smaller in size than the new chassis which I find a good thing as I do not have much space for audio gear.

 
I get confused !!  
 
This picture , without the 2 transformer behind the 4 tubes, is yours ?  is it what you call the "old chassis" ?   So...does this mean that the new chassis that I shoud get will have the 2 (ugly :) transformers sitting behind the ' tubes ? 
 
Sep 26, 2014 at 5:36 AM Post #219 of 646
That is gorgeous man. I was thinking either the BA or 445 for a tube amp for the Abyss and hd800, but the transformers have turned me right off the 445. Your amp is a collectors item! I wonder if I can get a batch buy with them separate like on the BA? hmm.
 
Sep 26, 2014 at 5:37 AM Post #220 of 646
  Yours is production model and it should have separate power supply. Also maybe you should try EML 45Mesh, EML tubes definitely hit harder than those globe 45's, EML also has much better highs on my Lampi B7 if I am not wrong. And from many reviews I have read and from my own experience using 45 tubes on my Lampi, EML 45Mesh is definitely a lot better than globes on my Lampi, but things maybe different on 445. And I know lots of vintage globe 45's are too old, I bought 8 of them(all claimed to be NOS) only half of them passed test on my friends tube tester. So yours might also be the problem with 45 tubes. 

 
This may be the case:  Indeed, here is the answer I just received from "cuthus@charter.net"
 
"The globe 45 tubes, 145, 245, 345, 445 are very god sounding tubes. The front number denotes the manufacturer. The globe tubes are antiques, some as old as 80 years. They are fragile, and often times arrive dead. The advantage of the EML tubes is the warranty. Sound wise it becomes personal taste, both tubes sound great, but they are different."
 
Sep 26, 2014 at 5:02 PM Post #221 of 646
I don't know to each his own. The new case looks narrower than the old case. I have a lot of tube amps and exposed transformers don't bother me. But really the important thing is that it sounds great.
 
Sep 27, 2014 at 6:55 AM Post #222 of 646

 
I get confused !!  
 
This picture , without the 2 transformer behind the 4 tubes, is yours ?  is it what you call the "old chassis" ?   So...does this mean that the new chassis that I shoud get will have the 2 (ugly :) transformers sitting behind the ' tubes ? 

 
This is mine, it is the old chassis. I don't think the new chassis is particularly ugly. In fact some might find my old chassis a bit too bland looking.
 
 
This may be the case:  Indeed, here is the answer I just received from "cuthus@charter.net"
 
"The globe 45 tubes, 145, 245, 345, 445 are very god sounding tubes. The front number denotes the manufacturer. The globe tubes are antiques, some as old as 80 years. They are fragile, and often times arrive dead. The advantage of the EML tubes is the warranty. Sound wise it becomes personal taste, both tubes sound great, but they are different."

 
Craig's response on this point is that he found that the ST sized 45 tubes (these are far less expensive than the globe 45s) better than the EML mesh plates. Since I want to give the 4-45 more juice and bass for the HE-6, I'm seriously considering the EML tubes. I wonder if anyone has experience with the mesh plates vs. the solid plates EMLs. I have very good experience with AVVT tubes as my pair of AV32SL is simply goldly but I am not sure if the production quality has maintained since EML took over. 
 
Sep 27, 2014 at 7:13 AM Post #223 of 646
I wonder if anyone has experience with the mesh plates vs. the solid plates EMLs. I have very good experience with AVVT tubes as my pair of AV32SL is simply goldly but I am not sure if the production quality has maintained since EML took over. 

Here is a review from 6 Moons, but I couldn't tell much from it.  I ordered the mesh plate mainly because I love the EML 300b meshy in my BA.  Still, I wonder if the solid plate would have been better 
confused.gif
   

Edit:  EML seems to like the mesh plate better, but I think they were writing about mesh vs solid generically, not about the #45 specifically.
 
Edit:  Having just reread the review I think the Mesh Plate will work fine for classical listeners like me.
 

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