[rawrster]

People have different opinions and that's just great. I like my O2 over the SR009. However I have flirted on more than one occasion with selling my HD800 and D1 and using the money from that to buy a SR009 however I can never get myself to do that. It's just too much of an investment for a secondary rig imo at least. 

 

[MickeyVee]

Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
I'm definitely staying in the budget territory but am thinking of the Woo WA7.  The numbers on the Woo comparison PDF show the WA7 close to the WA2. Any comments on that.
Quote:

You've said that several times...but it is VERY far from my experiences with the Lyr. I used to own the Lyr for about a year and with tubes that were pretty much worth the Lyr itself. Sorry, but with the HD800s or T1s it was a slow brute that couldn't articulate the nuances of the music. It made the HD800s seem slow and plodding regardless of tubes that I ran with it. The WA22 or LF (that I had on hand) stomped it into the ground it wasn't close. And now that the GS-X MKII stomps on the WA22/LF, I'll let you guess how high I hold the Lyr with the HD800s. 

 Heck, I found the Schiit Valhalla a much nicer "budget" match for the HD800s.
 
 

 

[zigy626]

Just to address this Myth that Matrix M-Stage is a clone of Lehmann BCL. I have tried both amplifiers and M-Stage sounds nothing like the BCL. The difference is night and day. M-Stage is a warm sounding amplifier and imparts a sound signature of its own, however the BCL is very transparent and not a warm sounding amp at all. I bought the M-Stage for my HD650's and was very disappointed as it sounded even worse than my Fiio E09K. Sold it off on ebay for a loss.  

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
I'm definitely staying in the budget territory but am thinking of the Woo WA7.  The numbers on the Woo comparison PDF show the WA7 close to the WA2. Any comments on that.

I haven't heard the WA7 yet, but ears I trust (Frank I) was very happy with the combination...and he mentioned that the DAC included was pretty good. I found the HD800s more coherent with the Valhalla compared to the Lyr. The Lyr as I mentioned was too much brute force for the HD800s and couldn't finesse around complicated pieces of music very well. The Valhalla did a better job to my ears. I wasn't a fan of the Lyr for any headphones except for the LCD-2 and HE-500/6. Notice...all orthos. 

 
For under $1k, the MAD Super II is one excellent option and along with the WA2 and WA6SE was among my top choices for tube amps in this range.

 

[khaine1711]

Quote:

Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
I'm definitely staying in the budget territory but am thinking of the Woo WA7.  The numbers on the Woo comparison PDF show the WA7 close to the WA2. Any comments on that.

Numbers don't say anything much. The WA7, being transformer-coupled, will sound distinctly different from the WA2.
 
 

Just to address this Myth that Matrix M-Stage is a clone of Lehmann BCL. I have tried both amplifiers and M-Stage sounds nothing like the BCL. The difference is night and day. M-Stage is a warm sounding amplifier and imparts a sound signature of its own, however the BCL is very transparent and not a warm sounding amp at all. I bought the M-Stage for my HD650's and was very disappointed as it sounded even worse than my Fiio E09K. Sold it off on ebay for a loss.  

It is a clone of the BCL, with a few modifications here and there. There's another exact clone called the lovely cube. Of course they don't sound the same, parts choice plays a huge part in any design. You could only do so much with ~100 bucks worth of parts afterall.

 

[Maxvla]

Just to address this Myth that Matrix M-Stage is a clone of Lehmann BCL. I have tried both amplifiers and M-Stage sounds nothing like the BCL. The difference is night and day. M-Stage is a warm sounding amplifier and imparts a sound signature of its own, however the BCL is very transparent and not a warm sounding amp at all. I bought the M-Stage for my HD650's and was very disappointed as it sounded even worse than my Fiio E09K. Sold it off on ebay for a loss.  

Hm. I'm quite happy with the M-Stage as a stand in while I want for my GS-X II. It does seem to have particular synergy with the HD800 though, not the HD650 you used.

 

[zigy626]

Quote:

Hm. I'm quite happy with the M-Stage as a stand in while I want for my GS-X II. It does seem to have particular synergy with the HD800 though, not the HD650 you used.

To be frank with you I would not hook up a $1500 headphone into something that cost $200. At the time I bought the M-Stage there was a lot of talk about DC-Offset with Schitt amps and what it does to the transducer on AKG K701. Someone even made a video of it. Watching that video scared the Schitt out of me 

.  I am just saying cheap parts wont protect you from that sudden burst of DC-Offset if something goes wrong inside your M-Stage.  

 

[Maxvla]

That's pretty silly. As long as the product is made correctly it doesn't matter what it cost. Your high end amp could fail just as easily as the inexpensive one if there was a faulty part that wasn't caught in the screening process. Most amps, cheap and expensive both use inexpensive parts. Usually it's the casing, the R+D, and the markup that are the difference between cheap and expensive. Little resistors and opamps and such are the same in both types of amps. Some notable exceptions are there (transformers/etc), but even in a GS-X II there are parts that cost less than a dollar each, I would wager.

 

[Jd007]

Quote:

To be frank with you I would not hook up a $1500 headphone into something that cost $200. At the time I bought the M-Stage there was a lot of talk about DC-Offset with Schitt amps and what it does to the transducer on AKG K701. Someone even made a video of it. Watching that video scared the Schitt out of me 

.  I am just saying cheap parts wont protect you from that sudden burst of DC-Offset if something goes wrong inside your M-Stage.  

There is nothing wrong with $200 amps if they are made properly by people who care about sound. I have a Little Dot MK III with my HD800 and I find it better than some much more expensive amps, including the Lyr (w/ $80 NOS tubes) and some $1k SS amps. You should not judge something by the price, which varies a lot depending on where it is made (LD is made in China which has much cheaper parts and labor cost). Only judge by ears and internal examination of build/parts quality.

 

[DarKen23]

Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
I'm definitely staying in the budget territory but am thinking of the Woo WA7.  The numbers on the Woo comparison PDF show the WA7 close to the WA2. Any comments on that.

I haven't heard the WA7 yet, but ears I trust (Frank I) was very happy with the combination...and he mentioned that the DAC included was pretty good. I found the HD800s more coherent with the Valhalla compared to the Lyr. The Lyr as I mentioned was too much brute force for the HD800s and couldn't finesse around complicated pieces of music very well. The Valhalla did a better job to my ears. I wasn't a fan of the Lyr for any headphones except for the LCD-2 and HE-500/6. Notice...all orthos. 

For under $1k, the MAD Super II is one excellent option and along with the WA2 and WA6SE was among my top choices for tube amps in this range.

Interesting, I didn't find the lyr exciting at all with the LCD2. The mjolnir is a different story however.

 

[zigy626]

Quote:

That's pretty silly. As long as the product is made correctly it doesn't matter what it cost. Your high end amp could fail just as easily as the inexpensive one if there was a faulty part that wasn't caught in the screening process. Most amps, cheap and expensive both use inexpensive parts. Usually it's the casing, the R+D, and the markup that are the difference between cheap and expensive. Little resistors and opamps and such are the same in both types of amps. Some notable exceptions are there (transformers/etc), but even in a GS-X II there are parts that cost less than a dollar each, I would wager.

My logic is the I would rather be sitting in a BMW than a Fiat Punto when it all goes belly-up. And frankly I am sure Lehmann spend considerable time quality testing components they are putting inside the amplifier. These same amplifiers are then being used in recording studios. There is a certain pride in the product and attention to detail. Frankly its the attention to detail you are paying the high price for. This thing is so transparent that I am picking up every imperfection in recording, its tiring sometimes. 

 

[khaine1711]

Quote:

My logic is the I would rather be sitting in a BMW than a Fiat Punto when it all goes belly-up. And frankly I am sure Lehmann spend considerable time quality testing components they are putting inside the amplifier. These same amplifiers are then being used in recording studios. There is a certain pride in the product and attention to detail. Frankly its the attention to detail you are paying the high price for. This thing is so transparent that I am picking up every imperfection in recording, its tiring sometimes. 

That's slightly incorrect though. Car goes belly up, you die. Amp goes belly up, your phones still live (well mostly). Case in point if things went wrong with your BCL (or even the M-stage), I don't think your HD800 will be harmed.
 
The Lyr is certainly an exception, due to its high power nature.
 
My point is that don't hesitate to try stuff because of safety. Even Chinese-made stuff is mostly safe these days.

 

[RedBull]

I am starting to love the Lehmann Black Cube Linear. It sounds lovely with the HD800. I think not many people in the US are aware of the amplifier but in Europe it is highly regarded. I personally feel the amp requires a considerable amount of time for burn-in. Its around a $1000 but I think it worth the price. 

BCL is a nice, very detail, smooth sounding amp. I like it.

 

[zigy626]

Quote:

That's slightly incorrect though. Car goes belly up, you die. Amp goes belly up, your phones still live (well mostly). Case in point if things went wrong with your BCL (or even the M-stage), I don't think your HD800 will be harmed.
 
The Lyr is certainly an exception, due to its high power nature.
 
My point is that don't hesitate to try stuff because of safety. Even Chinese-made stuff is mostly safe these days.

Point taken but I still would not take my HD800 anywhere near a Little Dot or M-Stage or Lovely Cube. It just my personal issue. In my mind Chinese companies are all about mass production, low wages and cheap products. I would buy Made in China in a heartbeat if it says Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Bower and Wilkinson, Apple because I am putting my faith in the brand, their quality control, R&D, and proper wages. 

 

[palmfish]

Quote:

Point taken but I still would not take my HD800 anywhere near a Little Dot or M-Stage or Lovely Cube. It just my personal issue. In my mind Chinese companies are all about mass production, low wages and cheap products. I would buy Made in China in a heartbeat if it says Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Bower and Wilkinson, Apple because I am putting my faith in the brand, their quality control, R&D, and proper wages. 

 
So no Opera or HiFiMan either, huh?
 
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-look-inside-the-chinese-audio-industry/
 
Nothing wrong with that, but it'll cost ya!