The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread
Jan 4, 2017 at 8:41 PM Post #24,856 of 28,989
Goodhertz Update! Found these settings to be optimal for my setup (V281, HD800, SWR3).

CanOpener




MidSide




Edit: The third value from the left (Side tilt gain) is actually -1dB. Not sure why it was +1 in this screenshot.

Marvellous! Most certainly sounds more like my studio monitors. Much more natural.


Cheers @fjrabon
 for the nudge and starting points.


Glad you're enjoying it. Really was a game changer for me. Should improve as you fiddle with the settings over time and better optimize it for your system/preferences. With those plus sonarworks and subpac, I've gotten my system really close to my friends half a million dollar Focal setup. I know that seems like an insane exaggeration but yeah, it's really dang good.
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 8:52 PM Post #24,857 of 28,989
Glad you're enjoying it. Really was a game changer for me. Should improve as you fiddle with the settings over time and better optimize it for your system/preferences. With those plus sonarworks and subpac, I've gotten my system really close to my friends half a million dollar Focal setup. I know that seems like an insane exaggeration but yeah, it's really dang good.

 
I have a great reference point: I've been producing and mixing a tune for a solid month now, so I know *exactly* what should be where with regards to soundstage. I could dial the settings quite quickly to position everything. I'll spend more time making it perfect once the track is finished (as things change during mixing), which will be the next couple of days.

Something I wasn't expecting: CanOpener and MidSide have added a warmth/coherence/gentleness to the sound without sacrificing detail. They'll most certainly be a permanent feature with HD800 use. Time to buy!
 
Edit: Tweaking from memory at the moment as it's 2am and I can't wake the neighbours with the speakers. I've already shifted the M/S to +3 and -3 as per your own settings. Tomorrow I can make A/B comparisons :¬)
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 9:19 PM Post #24,858 of 28,989
I have a great reference point: I've been producing and mixing a tune for a solid month now, so I know *exactly* what should be where with regards to soundstage. I could dial the settings quite quickly to position everything. I'll spend more time making it perfect once the track is finished (as things change during mixing), which will be the next couple of days.


Something I wasn't expecting: CanOpener and MidSide have added a warmth/coherence/gentleness to the sound without sacrificing detail. They'll most certainly be a permanent feature with HD800 use. Time to buy!

Edit: Tweaking from memory at the moment as it's 2am and I can't wake the neighbours with the speakers. I've already shifted the M/S to +3 and -3 as per your own settings. Tomorrow I can make A/B comparisons :¬)


Yeah, I've talked to the people from goodhertz and apparently good crossfeed adds perceptual warmth without changing the measured frequency response. Because it shifts some extreme left right treble to the other side, the full force of any hard sides treble doesn't completely slam one ear or the other. This leads to perceived warmth without losing detail (if you're very treble sensitive it can actually enhance detail because it doesn't kill your ear with Ice pick hard panned treble, allowing other detail to be heard more easily).

Edit: as much as I love talking about CanOpener/midside we should probably head over to the CanOpener thread if you want to go into more detail.
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 3:36 AM Post #24,859 of 28,989
 
It simulates the physical feel that in real life bass gives.  We've known for a while that we "hear" bass as much through our core (chest or back dependent on the way you are facing) as we do through our ears.  That's the biggest reason that nobody ever agrees on what neutral bass is with headphones, because everybody agrees that headphones need more bass than measures exactly neutral, we just never agree how much extra bass headphones need.  But even if you got that amoutn exactly right, your brain sort of knows something artificial is going on, because it knows that you should be feeling anything below 200Hz in your core.  
 
No, it isn't a bass boost for your headphones.  I actually have it running through an entirely different DAC than my headphones.  
 


If you see this diagram, "digital out" is what I have feeding the MiMBy, which in turn feeds the TorpedoIII, which goes to the HD800.  AudioEngineD1 is a USB output that goes to the D1, which then feeds Subpac. 
 
So, as you can see the headphone and subpac don't directly interact.  I actually had to switch to minimum phase in Sonarworks, because linear phase meant that they were out of sync by about a thousandth of a second.  Not enough to hear them as being out of sync, but enough to make the bass seem a bit "wooly" like how it sounds out of something like a M50X that doesn't have great phase alignment in the bass between L&R.  
 
But yeah, it allows you to "feel" the bass like you would in real life.  Somehow your brain then interprets this and makes it sound louder to you.  It actually sounds like you're turning on a bass boost circuit when you turn subpac on, even though it doesn't actually produce any dicernible auditory sound.  But since you aren't pumping extra bass into your ears, your ears retain their ability to hear fine detail, like they do when listening to a bright headphone.  So you get the best of both worlds.  It also, to me, seems to expand the soundstage a bit, somehow.  The only explanation I can think of is that it expands the portion of my body that is "receiving" sound and thus seems more expansive.  
 
I actually wear it backwards when sitting down, ie on my chest.  If I wear it on my back, my brain actually flips the soundstage and I hear things as coming from behind me.  This effect is very pronounced with non-angled headphones.  With the HD800, it's kind of a weird effect having it on your back, it's like the bass is behind you but the rest of the band is in front of you.  But it's perfect to just flip it around and put it on your chest.

what if this one:
https://www.amazon.com/SubPac-S2-Seatback-Physical-System/dp/B00YUMOOQ0/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&srs=12034488011&ie=UTF8&qid=1483605281&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=subpac&th=1
 
i hate to wear everytime listening to songs, just put on the chair. Is it the same thing? or the m2 is better than s2?
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 6:35 AM Post #24,862 of 28,989
Jan 5, 2017 at 6:36 AM Post #24,863 of 28,989
Anyone here tried the older grace design m902 any good? Tried to search it but no luck.TIA


Yes. Very good, though overpriced if you aren't using all its features.
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 8:14 AM Post #24,864 of 28,989
  Headroom Desktop Amp any good with the HD800?  

 
Yes, absolutely.
 
The crossfeed circuit, which I use even on mono recordings, warms the top end and smooths out the sound stage. I never use the brightness filter.
 
Compliments the 800 nicely.
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 10:55 AM Post #24,867 of 28,989
Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc.

About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 11:27 AM Post #24,868 of 28,989
Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc.

About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.


Are there any amps you haven't heard? :¬)
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 11:37 AM Post #24,869 of 28,989
Are there any amps you haven't heard? :¬)


Ha, one of the benefits of running several meets plus a decently large show in a fairly large city. Weirdly I've heard basically none of the FiiO, SMSL and audiogd stuff. Also want to hear the airist heron 5 and phonitor but haven't had a chance to hear those.
 
Jan 5, 2017 at 12:02 PM Post #24,870 of 28,989
Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc.

About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.


Thanks for that comparison!
 

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