[Peti]

I should get a chance to audition the HD800 this week. the thing about amps and dacs I mean a dac's job is to turn 1s and 0s into a wave form, and the odac does that as good as any other dac can if not better. So if you hear a difference in a 2 thousand dollar dac, that means that dac is messing the 1s and 0s and changing the sound, which is opposite of hifi, so it may or may not sound better, but technically speaking it is not doing a good job on what a dac is supposed to do.

Same with amps - an amps job is to deliver power to drive the headphones - an o2 at 6x gain has more than enough power to drive virtually any pair of headphones with minimum THD, so if a 2 thousand dollar amp sounds different, then it's messing with the signal to give an illusion of improvemen (which is not worth 2 thousand dollars imo) 

That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones, because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.

This exactly was my attitude before when I got into this hobby. I've read NWAVGUY's website like my Bible, it just made sense, as everything was backed by numbers and figures. Then, at my first head-fi meet, I have heard the same hd800 hooked up on a liquid gold. Since then, my life has changed, and I'm not exaggerating here. I know you are trying to justify why you shouldn't spend more dough on high end amps and dacs but do yourself a favour and get to a meet to listen to it with your own ears!

 

[Peti]

P.S.: since then, the only headphones I'm listening to is my classic hd800 as I don't need anything else to listen and enjoy my poorly recorded metal records! I think that tells everything.

 

[icebear]

...  
That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones, because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.

 
There is a solid misunderstanding here ... you are not fixing the headphones.
The HD800 will tell you what is wrong with the other parts of your set up.

 

[Beztis]

nevermind

 

[Peti]

Ouch.....

 

[Beztis]

Ouch.....

sorry i didnt mean to get so carried away, its not worth fighting over, at the end of the day just matters if u are happy....... i am 27 years old now and i realize that most stuff in life are not worth fighting over and its very silly to get upset and fight with other living beings over material items.  i am a die hard sennheiser fan and when i see others say that other headphones are better, every cell in my body wants to hurt them, but it's really stupid when i think about it, because i know that nobody from sennheiser would put their emotions in jeopardy for me, so im being stupid. 
 
if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3. 

 

[vc1187]

sorry i didnt mean to get so carried away, its not worth fighting over, at the end of the day just matters if u are happy....... i am 27 years old now and i realize that most stuff in life are not worth fighting over and its very silly to get upset and fight with other living beings over material items.  i am a die hard sennheiser fan and when i see others say that other headphones are better, every cell in my body wants to hurt them, but it's really stupid when i think about it, because i know that nobody from sennheiser would put their emotions in jeopardy for me, so im being stupid. 

if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3. 

Haha what?! I think you need a good psych evaluation rather than a pair of HD800s

 

[audiojun]

 
if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3. 

 
It's not about the money and honestly I think the HD 800 isn't for you. Based on what you like, The HD 650 is smooth sounding and yet you like to smooth out the sound even more with a tube amp and mullard tubes. The HD 800 is opposite of smooth it's like a razor, it will cut up your source and show you everything including the ugly.

 

[johnjen]

  nevermind

My 2¢
 
800's, like a lot of TotL gear is going to reveal ALL of the strengths AND weaknesses of your entire audio chain.
 
That's what they were designed to do, to reveal ALL of the nuances of the signal that is fed to them.
 
This includes such intangibles as the acoustic space, the harmonic structure of each 'Voice' and other 'non-ordinary' sonic characteristics that are in the music but can all to easily be obscured and/or altered by ALL of the upstream gear, no matter how good it may be.
 
800's are a great HP to build a system around, that is if you desire to hear what they are fully capable of.
But beware, they WILL reveal all of the foibles as well as the wonderfulness of the music you send to them.
 
IOW if your intention is to use 800's and be satisfied with the end result while using your previous gear, you may be disappointed and hugely so.
 
They won't hide nor disguise any of the 'rough edges' of the signal fed them, and you WILL hear it all, because that is what TotL gear does.
It is starkly revealing.
 
Just a few thoughts to ponder.
 
JJ

 

[Thenewguy007]

but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars

 
Never understood this. Do you own a car or plan to own a car? It's thousands, if not tens of thousands more than a bike + bus fare.

Do you feel guilty driving one?

 

[SearchOfSub]

How do you buy anything with that mentality. Sometimes you just gotta buy what you buy and just enjoy.

 

[Oldfella]

Does it matter if someone is using a cheap phone,and apple earphones?. If people are happy in what they are hearing, then thats fine by me.The best thing about this hobby, is that there are so many variables in price/amps/dacs. etc., that everyone is looking for their end game. I started at 12 years of age. I am now at 76years of age,and feel that i am 90% there. I hope to reach my goal of 100%, by the time i reach 100 years old.maybe?.

 

[DavidA]

 
Does it matter if someone is using a cheap phone,and apple earphones?. If people are happy in what they are hearing, then thats fine by me.The best thing about this hobby, is that there are so many variables in price/amps/dacs. etc., that everyone is looking for their end game. I started at 12 years of age. I am now at 76years of age,and feel that i am 90% there. I hope to reach my goal of 100%, by the time i reach 100 years old.maybe?.

I started taking headphones a little more serious just 3 years ago, I see my end game, just need to prioritize spending to get there.

 

[fjrabon]

  I started taking headphones a little more serious just 3 years ago, I see my end game, just need to prioritize spending to get there.

What's your end game?  I think I'm pretty close to mine.  The biggest part of my end game was honestly DSP getting better.  For a long time DSP EQ was garbage, as were DSP crossfeed programs, but in the last few years they have take n huge leaps forwards such that the "not bit perfect" argument against them is really a non-entity any longer.  We've been at end game for amps for a while, IMHO.  My endgame amp is probably the Torpedo III I have coming.  DACs are pretty close to what I want, as they've made insane leaps and bounds of progress in the last 3-5 years.  My biggest issue with DACs right now is that they're making such rapid progress, and their value depreciates so fast, that I'm scared to buy a really top end DAC at this moment (even something like a GuMBy) because it may be completely outdated and worth 1/3 of it's value in 2 years.  I know the HD800 and Torpedo III will stand up to just about anything in at least 5-10 years in overall SQ.  
 
Headphones, I think we're getting there.  The HD800, SR009 and Abyss are sooooooooo close, IMHO.  It's crazy to me that you can get a used HD800 for $800 dollars these days, apply sonarworks anad have that kind of headphone for about $900.
 
Right now my endgame would probably be:  AIFF -> Sonarworks/Canopener -> Yggy -> Torpedo III -> HD800.  I'm pretty close to having that, but I just can't bring myself to spend that money on the Yggy given the rate of advance and dropping prices of DACs in the market the last few years, so I'll probably stick to the m9XX or maybe a Chord Hugo as my DAC until they really hit that turning point.

 

[fjrabon]

  sorry i didnt mean to get so carried away, its not worth fighting over, at the end of the day just matters if u are happy....... i am 27 years old now and i realize that most stuff in life are not worth fighting over and its very silly to get upset and fight with other living beings over material items.  i am a die hard sennheiser fan and when i see others say that other headphones are better, every cell in my body wants to hurt them, but it's really stupid when i think about it, because i know that nobody from sennheiser would put their emotions in jeopardy for me, so im being stupid. 
 
if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3. 

There's no problem with saying that the difference from one amp or another isn't worth it to you.  That's your own value judgment and I applaud you for striking a line and sticking to it as far as what is or isn't worth it to you.  However, you don't need to then say that objectively all amps are the same, and talk down to people who say otherwise like they're idiots for thinking amps and DACs make a difference to justify your stance.  You then run into the problem that you've made a claim that can be disproven, rather than stating your own personal value judgment.  There have been absolutely points in my life where a $100 Grado straight out of an iPod was what worked for me at a value standpoint.  I didn't go around trying to tell people that no amp or higher headphone is any better than that.  
 
Head-Fi can absolutely have this tendency where people basically think all gear "below" what they own is trash and all gear "above" is just snake oil.  Gotta get out of that.  Audio, auditory physiology, psychoacoustics and electricity are complicated.  There are a lot of variables to nail down as MeX3 said.
 
Products aren't worth getting angry over.  I post about this stuff because I love music, and I love sound, and I love being a bit nerdy about how that all comes together. Very little makes me happier than getting together with my buddy Purk and talking the finer points of amping the HD800 or the SR009 vs his Orpheus vs. his R10 over some chicken wings.   I have a few pet peeves (people talking about gear they've never even heard and saying X is better than Y when they've never heard it) but I do my best to just let it go, after simply saying "well, I have this direct experience about this, so I think ..." and moving on.  You can't let something that's meant to bring you joy cause "every cell in [your] body want[ing] to hurt [somebody]."  I feel a special affinity for Beezar Audio/ECP gear because 1) it's crazy phenomenal and 2) TomB is a personal friend of mine, but even that, I try to think "man they're just missing out" if somebody said they don't like it (luckily the Torpedo III is so good and so obscure that only a few people have heard it and those that have pretty much universally praise it).  Same with the E-MU Teaks.  Chan is a personal friend of mine and I think he's done a phenomenal job with those headphones, but I can't let somebody not liking them make *my* experience worse.
 
I am really glad you're happy with your HD650 and ldmk3.  I have in the past owned and really liked the HD650.  Oddly enough the main reason I sold mine was the amping needs it has.  It was a kind of weird middle ground for me in that it couldn't really be portable, but I didn't love it quite enough to dedicate a whole stationary desktop rig to it.  But that was just my feeling, it's a great headphone.