[kumar402]

Read most of the thread and used the search, but other than a single member nobody has mentioned the synergy between this amp and high impedance headphones, like ZMF, HD800, etc...

I'm heavily invested in high impedance headphones, and already own a great OTL amp as well as a fantastic tube based DAC so i'm looking for a solid state 'one amp does it all' solution that can not only do well with planars, but also dynamic drivers from 32-600 ohms.

Thoughts?

I have similar headphones - All High impedence dynamic driver from ZMF and Sennheiser.

But isn't the point of bias control is to make it sound mostly the same? As far as my experience goes with Amp-23R I noticed slight change but it can be due to R2R warm up or my ears (brain) adjusting.

Well for me combo May and Amp-23R can be troublesome. With 1266 TC it seems great (still need to test more) but with LCD-5 it's sometimes too much. There's to much going on in the mids in busy tracks and it all sounds like a wall of sound. In other trakcs it's too calm and polite as if it has no life. Too close to neutral for me it seems. I advice warmer DAC with more musical midrange.

many a times this wall of sound effect comes from a cold R2R NOS DAC. Try OS in Hqplayer and then feed it to May DAC.
Most friends I know use HQPLAYER with May DAC. The DAC is average without it as per feedback.

 

[Roasty]

preliminary listening impressions

- Enleum pairs with Wavelight and Pasithea better than Holo May KTE
- Enleum sounds better and is more enjoyable than Ferrum stack (which I own)

will pen down more thoughts after a few more days of listening.

 

[orrman]

preliminary listening impressions

- Enleum pairs with Wavelight and Pasithea better than Holo May KTE
- Enleum sounds better and is more enjoyable than Ferrum stack (which I own)

will pen down more thoughts after a few more days of listening.

I'll be curious to hear your comparisons to the WA33

 

[jsallison]

Well that's the thing, I read that Enleum is at the warmer side of neutral. The same with May I think. LCD-5 also aren't neutral. Yet this combo gives me this very neutral vibe, sometimes even as much as sounding dead. Also it can be agressive (busy tracks). Thats why I was confused when I heard 1266 which sounded just right, maybe even better then on my Cayin HA-300. Maybe it's the forward mids of LCD-5, but even on LCD-4 mids aren't great (but better then Fives).

I'm experimenting with my Chord Qutest and it seems to be better. Maybe it's the thing that GoldenSound mentioned that Amp-23R likes much lower voltage from DAC. Qutest can go down to 1V (but it's still far from 0,3V) and May is almost 3V. At store I tested Enleum with Sonnet Morpheus and I think it sounded better. Still Ferrum Oor was much more fun and it's considered even more neutral (am I right?).

I'm still trying to understand this amp . One of the things that I don't like are those stands - all that marketing talk about anti-vibration legs and really they couldn't figure out that they need a rubber at bottom (which they did afterwards and gave a silicon pads)?

 

[Zielarz]

the lcd-5 is so much more efficient than the abyss TC

Theoretically yes, but if I'm looking at volume control of Cayin and Enelum, they are quite close (still TC needs more juice).

many a times this wall of sound effect comes from a cold R2R NOS DAC. Try OS in Hqplayer and then feed it to May DAC.

I'll check but I never head this issue with Cayin. Also I listened few times after proper warm up and it was the same. Yesterday I had better time with Amp-23R even on LCD-5 and May. I'm not sure if there is some variable thing or maybe it's my ears.

 

[iFi audio]

the lcd-5 is so much more efficient than the abyss TC

Yup!

It indeed does. Never cared to think about it too much. Using the legs and it's been great

Live and learn

 

[Roasty]

I'll be curious to hear your comparisons to the WA33

tbh, it's not really a fair fight..

with nice tubes (tak274b, we417a, 300b 2.5v), the wa33 is a good few levels above the enleum. and mine is the standard edition with jps wiring, so I'm assuming there will be an even bigger gap between the enleum and elite edition wa33.

everything sounds "bigger" with the wa33. more low end, a bit more bloom, wider, more space. vocals and top end are a bit further back than the enleum; overall, the wa33 seems to have a more balanced sound. i can turn up the knob more without having the vocals become too much, and at the same time getting a more bombastic sound with the mids and low end.

the enleum has nice lush mids but a bit more forward in the top end. there is a point in the volume knob where I feel like if I turn it any more, even just slightly, the vocals become shrill; seems like the vocals and top end get their volume up before the low end. with the wa33, it feels like I can turn up the knob endlessly and that my ears would probably bleed before I get distortion.

compared to the ferrum.. I actually enjoy the enleum more than the ferrum.

the enleum has more midbass and low end for sure, but with a bit of bloom/looseness. whereas the ferrum low end is audibly tighter and faster, but less in amount. vocals sound sweeter on the enleum too, comparatively thinner/almost anaemic on the ferrum. the enleum has a bit of a V shape curve to me, whereas the ferrum is bit flatter.

although the soundstage seems wider with the enleum, there is, however, more space/blackness around elements with the Ferrum stack, whereas with the Enleum, elements seem less distinct/individual.

personally, I feel the retail price for the enleum is a bit much. I hope you guys got it on a discount from rrp. probably a 4k price point is a decent amount. that would make it an easy choice over the ferrum.

 

[thecrow]

Isn't May a warmer R2R DAC?

No. I would not describe my May KTE as warm. Closer to neutral or natural in a neutral kind of way.
Thats’s with me using it solely with my niimbus amp amd sometimes my woo wa 2.

Level 2, that some people write about may be a tad more laid back but i have never heard the L2 myself

imho and experience the May Kte is considerably closer to a chord dave than me describing it as a warm dac. i would say the dave has a bit more refinement or nuance in it but it should at twice the price. The may is a tad softer than the dave.
This is all imho (ie subjective) and with two sessions of about 3 hours each demoing the dave with my niimbus and a few totl headphones (eg utopia, abyss tc)

i also own the metrum hex dac and that is warm or very much “analogue” to my ears. From what i have (only) read, the pasithea (made by the same engineer as metrum dacs) is not as warm as the metrum.

enough of me going too far off topic

 

[Drewligarchy]

I'll be curious to hear your comparisons to the WA33

I have the 23r and the Wa33 Elite (and previously the Wa33 standard), so I can give some thoughts. Of the two, the 23r is closer to the Wa33 standard, as the Wa33 Elite is more tubey - but in a good way. It obviously depends on tubes, but I would say the Wa33's soundstage is a bit wider and deeper, and has a touch of that midrange tube magic, while the 23r is a bit faster. They both soften the sound a tiny bit in a enjoyable way, but it's just a touch. Something which leads to long listening sessions - but is subtle, and you wouldn't necessarily here it unless you compare directly to other solid state amps. Still the 23r is crisp, fast and has well defined bass (as does the Wa33). Essentially, the Wa33 standard sounds a lot like an excellent solid state, and the 23r sounds like it has a touch of tubiness - which is why I feel like they are so similar.

The Wa33 standard and Amp 23r are quite similar sounding in their overall tonality and character. The Wa33 Elite is a different thing - accurate but more euphonic. I like the contrast between the Elite and 23r - which is why I've kept both. I like the Abyss on the Elite and the Susvara on the 23r. If one of those 2 are your main headphones I would buy the corresponding amp. My favorite pairings with the Abyss are the Wa33 standard and Elite, and my favorite pairing with the Susvara is the 23r.

 

[orrman]

Thanks @Roasty and @Drewligarchy , your impressions make sense to me as I had my some time with a WA33 Standard, auditioned the WA33 Elite and know the 23r very well by now as its my main amp with the Susvara and 1266 TC.

personally, I feel the retail price for the enleum is a bit much.

I will say that I think part of the value proposition of the Enleum isn't only its sound characteristics but also its engineering (size and build) and being an integrated amp on top of a really good and competitive to the higher end headphones amps. I still bought it used for much lower than current MSRP.

the 23r is closer to the Wa33 standard

You're not the first to say this and I think so as well - the 23r is a bit tubey and the WA33 is a bit solid state in their presentation. If one is looking to go deep on either topology then these probably won't do the trick but I like that fact a lot.

@Drewligarchy When I listened to the 33 Elite with Dave (like you have) it was a bit too technical and dry to my liking but that was with stock tubes. I could see why many would love that combo but I enjoyed the Susvara more on the lusher warmer options like the 23r. It's totally down to preference at that point though.

I like the Abyss on the Elite and the Susvara on the 23r

I think I'm heading back to owning both the WA33 and the Enleum until my Zahl HM1 arrives next year. I think both the Sus and TC sound different enough on each amp that it depends on what you're trying to get out of them in a session with different types of music that can tip the scale either way, at least for me. Unfortunately the Elite is out of my budget but one day lol

 

[eskamobob1]

tbh, it's not really a fair fight..

with nice tubes (tak274b, we417a, 300b 2.5v), the wa33 is a good few levels above the enleum. and mine is the standard edition with jps wiring, so I'm assuming there will be an even bigger gap between the enleum and elite edition wa33.

everything sounds "bigger" with the wa33. more low end, a bit more bloom, wider, more space. vocals and top end are a bit further back than the enleum; overall, the wa33 seems to have a more balanced sound. i can turn up the knob more without having the vocals become too much, and at the same time getting a more bombastic sound with the mids and low end.

the enleum has nice lush mids but a bit more forward in the top end. there is a point in the volume knob where I feel like if I turn it any more, even just slightly, the vocals become shrill; seems like the vocals and top end get their volume up before the low end. with the wa33, it feels like I can turn up the knob endlessly and that my ears would probably bleed before I get distortion.

compared to the ferrum.. I actually enjoy the enleum more than the ferrum.

the enleum has more midbass and low end for sure, but with a bit of bloom/looseness. whereas the ferrum low end is audibly tighter and faster, but less in amount. vocals sound sweeter on the enleum too, comparatively thinner/almost anaemic on the ferrum. the enleum has a bit of a V shape curve to me, whereas the ferrum is bit flatter.

although the soundstage seems wider with the enleum, there is, however, more space/blackness around elements with the Ferrum stack, whereas with the Enleum, elements seem less distinct/individual.

personally, I feel the retail price for the enleum is a bit much. I hope you guys got it on a discount from rrp. probably a 4k price point is a decent amount. that would make it an easy choice over the ferrum.

Very well put. These impressions match mine quite well the wa33 is simply on another tier compaired to the enlum

 

[XERO1]

The 23r is absalutely not a neutral amp

The word is it has triode-like tone, so yeah...

Not a bad thing though!

The situation with Enleum made me rethink all the amps that I had and they were mostly warm sounding. That’s why maybe I don’t even know what true neutral is. Still for me Amp-23R is much closer to that then the other amps that I heard.

If you want a dull, boring, lifeless, dead-flat 'neutral' sounding amp, just buy some THX op-amp based amp and call it a day.

But if you want to hear what the exact opposite of that sounds like, listen to the AMP-23R and then decide which one sounds more 'real' to you.

 

[eskamobob1]

If you want a dull, boring, lifeless, dead-flat 'neutral' sounding amp, go buy some THX op-amp based amp and call it a day.

Thx isn't neutral either. Not even tonaly.

But if you want to hear what the exact opposite of that sounds like, listen to the AMP-23R and then decide which one sounds more 'real' to you.

Tonal neutrality is completely independent of if an amp is lifeless or not. If you want to test that throw an enleum on a sagra. Probabaly the single most dead and lifeless chain I've ever heard. Even as someone who likes richness and density, its important to realize that smoothness and dullness are not enharent to a specific signature.

Also, far and away the most "real" chain I've ever experiences wad weiss 502 -> wa33 and both those are bright of neutral imo

 

[iFi audio]

I have the 23r and the Wa33 Elite (and previously the Wa33 standard), so I can give some thoughts. Of the two, the 23r is closer to the Wa33 standard, as the Wa33 Elite is more tubey - but in a good way. It obviously depends on tubes, but I would say the Wa33's soundstage is a bit wider and deeper, and has a touch of that midrange tube magic, while the 23r is a bit faster. They both soften the sound a tiny bit in a enjoyable way, but it's just a touch. Something which leads to long listening sessions - but is subtle, and you wouldn't necessarily here it unless you compare directly to other solid state amps. Still the 23r is crisp, fast and has well defined bass (as does the Wa33). Essentially, the Wa33 standard sounds a lot like an excellent solid state, and the 23r sounds like it has a touch of tubiness - which is why I feel like they are so similar.

The Wa33 standard and Amp 23r are quite similar sounding in their overall tonality and character. The Wa33 Elite is a different thing - accurate but more euphonic. I like the contrast between the Elite and 23r - which is why I've kept both. I like the Abyss on the Elite and the Susvara on the 23r. If one of those 2 are your main headphones I would buy the corresponding amp. My favorite pairings with the Abyss are the Wa33 standard and Elite, and my favorite pairing with the Susvara is the 23r.

That is a nice well-balanced feedback, thanks!

Thx isn't neutral either. Not even tonaly.

To someone it probably is, it's a matter of one's reference points really

 

[Roasty]

I think I'm heading back to owning both the WA33 and the Enleum until my Zahl HM1 arrives next year.

looking forward to that zahl/enleum impression. the Zahl seems like the ultimate amp from what I've read online. I'm gg to try sell my Ferrum stack to fund for a Zahl. would actually consider an Enleum if I can find one for a good price.