[NamelessPFG]

I never got around to testing the Dolby Digital/DTS decoding for older X-Fi cards, sorry. The reasons are twofold:
 
-The only cards that support it are the original X-Fi cards, those being the XtremeMusic, Platinum (XtremeMusic with 5.25" front-panel bay), Fatal1ty FPS (Platinum with 64 MB X-RAM), and the Elite Pro (slightly different card with better DAC and a huge external I/O box). Creative has a full list here, complete with model numbers.
-If neither the 5.25" front panel bay or the external I/O box are included, then you need this proprietary Flexijack S/PDIF adapter.
 
Ideally, I'd get the X-Fi Elite Pro package since they're not as easy to confuse with the XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro cards (which are full-height, unlike most XtremeGamer cards, and appear almost identical to the Fatal1ty FPS except that they don't have the Decoder tab and probably didn't come with 5.25" bays either), but the ones that do pop up on eBay sell for far too much, usually around $200.
 
Still, it's a feature that shouldn't have been removed in the first place. It would have been nice to eventually record my Xbox games with Dolby Digital sound instead of downmixed stereo.
 
As for quality differences, first impressions with the Recon3D USB have shown the following:
 
-48 KHz ONLY. No 44.1 KHz support whatsoever, which means WASAPI exclusive mode for most music listening is right out. It doesn't support ASIO natively, either, so forget about that.
-The SniperCzar-discovered workaround for using USB DACs results in a MASSIVE sound quality penalty. Sounds all distorted and crap. Admitted, I didn't install the Recon3D drivers on my desktop to test that for fear that it would screw up the X-Fi Titanium HD side of things, and it's pretty bare-bones in driverless mode.
-The current Recon3D drivers have ALchemy version 1.43, whereas most of the recent X-Fi drivers use version 1.42. Unfortunately, this STILL doesn't fix Thief 1 and 2. Fortunately, I think I've figured out a way to install 1.35 in their place, borrowing the ALchemy installer files from the X-Fi Titanium HD's driver package and slipping them amidst the Recon3D driver installer's files. (I should try that with other X-Fi cards.)
-Surprisingly, I can enable X-Fi/Ultra High settings in Battlefield 2, but I hear noticeable reverb effects being applied to the menu sounds that I don't recall happening on any of my actual X-Fi cards.
-The S/PDIF input is NOT presented as a recording device, so while it's useful as an Astro Mixamp/Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS type of device for console gaming, you CANNOT record Dolby Digital sources with it.
-THX TruStudio Surround and CMSS-3D Headphone do NOT sound the same. Which is better and which is worse? Too early for me to make a decision yet.
-No SoundFont support for older games with MIDI music, so you're stuck with the default Microsoft software MIDI synth. Fortunately, you can use the BASSMIDI driver in its place, and Vista MIDI Fix to make it the default device. Unfortunately, some friends of mine have issues with it crashing the DXX-Rebirth Descent source ports that I never had to put up with on my X-Fi cards, so there could be more incompatibility with that route.
-For such a small device, the noise floor is surprisingly good. I can barely hear any noise with a silent signal using the HTF600. However, it's still not truly SILENT like the internal X-Fi cards.
 
They're still first impressions, though, and I have a lot to figure out about the Recon3D USB's quirks. However, it's safe to say that even this thing won't hold up to the proper X-Fi cards with the EMU20k1/EMU20k2. It might still have an edge over the "X-Fi" USB devices, though (which I consider fakes like the XtremeAudio in that they also lack the proper DSP), but I've never had one of those to test.

 

[Phos]

 
-If neither the 5.25" front panel bay or the external I/O box are included, then you need this proprietary Flexijack S/PDIF adapter.
 

It's not actually proprietary, the "3.5mm jack with a window" is on a lot of devices.  Apparently a lot of macs have them as well.  I also want to say it can be used with a 3.5mm to RCA cable, but I'm not sure on that.  Might have been a mistake.  I never used my PCI X-Fi like that.  

 

[Evshrug]

Nameless, I was going to ask if you had received your recon3D yet, but you answered that for me. UPS tracked it all the way to my local post office (with two updates saying it was Transferred to the post office) on Monday morning, but calling the post office I get the people there telling me they have an email & nothing else, and that the "Thornburg, PA, United States 08/27/2012 10:28 A.M. Package transferred to post office" message only means its sitting on a "pallet" in a UPS sorting facility.

Buncha bull.

When I finally get it, I'll report back on using it on a Mac with Creative's drivers & software installed. I have to admit, I don't know what WASAPI or AISO means or does, but then I've no experience finding audiophile file formats either beyond a Cd's typical AIFF encoding and Apple Lossless. I have a program called VNC Player that supports all kinds of audio filetypes and playback modes, but the program has never endeared itself to me.

My MacBook Pro (and I believe my PowerBook before that) has a "3.5mm jack with a window" in it.

 

[robwalton]

Hey Nameless, sorry if this topic has been already discussed, but I wanted to ask you about the Mixamp.
 
I currently game with the following setup: ASUS P8P67 (regular model) -> Optical Cable -> Mixamp 5.1 -> DT990 Pro (thanks Mad Lust for the recommendation!).
 
Now I know that for PC the Mixamp isn't the best choice, but since I already had it, and often use it with my PS3, I decided to go ahead and use it with my PC.
 
So my question is, is this setup fine for gaming on PC (I am more of an immersion guy, not competitive), or is my motherboard a bottleneck, and I should invest in a sound card to complement the Mixamp/or cut it out of the equation?
 
Thanks a lot and sorry again if this was discussed and I missed it!

 

[0sync0]

Quote:

Hey Nameless, sorry if this topic has been already discussed, but I wanted to ask you about the Mixamp.
 
I currently game with the following setup: ASUS P8P67 (regular model) -> Optical Cable -> Mixamp 5.1 -> DT990 Pro (thanks Mad Lust for the recommendation!).
 
Now I know that for PC the Mixamp isn't the best choice, but since I already had it, and often use it with my PS3, I decided to go ahead and use it with my PC.
 
So my question is, is this setup fine for gaming on PC (I am more of an immersion guy, not competitive), or is my motherboard a bottleneck, and I should invest in a sound card to complement the Mixamp/or cut it out of the equation?
 
Thanks a lot and sorry again if this was discussed and I missed it!

The Mixamp needs a surround signal and I don't think it is getting one from your mobo when playing games.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

Hey Nameless, sorry if this topic has been already discussed, but I wanted to ask you about the Mixamp.
 
I currently game with the following setup: ASUS P8P67 (regular model) -> Optical Cable -> Mixamp 5.1 -> DT990 Pro (thanks Mad Lust for the recommendation!).
 
Now I know that for PC the Mixamp isn't the best choice, but since I already had it, and often use it with my PS3, I decided to go ahead and use it with my PC.
 
So my question is, is this setup fine for gaming on PC (I am more of an immersion guy, not competitive), or is my motherboard a bottleneck, and I should invest in a sound card to complement the Mixamp/or cut it out of the equation?
 
Thanks a lot and sorry again if this was discussed and I missed it!

 
What 0sync0 said. If it isn't getting an actual Dolby Digital signal from your computer, then you might as well not bother with the Mixamp, which is a console gaming device at heart. You're better off keeping it to your PS3.
 
Your motherboard has DTS Surround Sensation support, but alas, the DTS Connect portion won't help you as the Mixamp can't decode DTS. For that matter, the discontinued SU-DH1 is the ONLY Dolby Headphone DAC/DSP I know of that can decode DTS.
 
Even then, as I keep saying (in fact, I just revised my guide to point this out), a sound card provides better sound quality and more features at less cost. You have some PCI slots on that motherboard along with PCI-Express ones, so you have plenty of options.
 
If you have $43 to spare, you could get one of these X-Fi Titanium cards. It's affordable, has all the PC gaming features you could ask for, and Dolby Digital Live support means you could use the Mixamp if you wanted to run your own CMSS-3D Headphone vs. Dolby Headphone comparisons.

 

[Phos]

The DTS thing on his motherboard isn't already an HRTF thing?  

 

[robwalton]

Quote:

The Mixamp needs a surround signal and I don't think it is getting one from your mobo when playing games.

 
Quote:

 
What 0sync0 said. If it isn't getting an actual Dolby Digital signal from your computer, then you might as well not bother with the Mixamp, which is a console gaming device at heart. You're better off keeping it to your PS3.
 
Your motherboard has DTS Surround Sensation support, but alas, the DTS Connect portion won't help you as the Mixamp can't decode DTS. For that matter, the discontinued SU-DH1 is the ONLY Dolby Headphone DAC/DSP I know of that can decode DTS.
 
Even then, as I keep saying (in fact, I just revised my guide to point this out), a sound card provides better sound quality and more features at less cost. You have some PCI slots on that motherboard along with PCI-Express ones, so you have plenty of options.
 
If you have $43 to spare, you could get one of these X-Fi Titanium cards. It's affordable, has all the PC gaming features you could ask for, and Dolby Digital Live support means you could use the Mixamp if you wanted to run your own CMSS-3D Headphone vs. Dolby Headphone comparisons.

 
Hmm, I see, I thought initially that the Mixamp would be enough, so I didn't consider that when I was building my PC, thanks for the advice!
 
Any cheap options that would work with my Mixamp?
 
I live abroad, so while I would get that Xi-Fi deal for 43 bucks in a heartbeat, unfortunately I can't, and a similar model would go for something like $200 here in Brazil.
 
Thanks!

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

Hmm, I see, I thought initially that the Mixamp would be enough, so I didn't consider that when I was building my PC, thanks for the advice!
 
Any cheap options that would work with my Mixamp?
 
I live abroad, so while I would get that Xi-Fi deal for 43 bucks in a heartbeat, unfortunately I can't, and a similar model would go for something like $200 here in Brazil.
 
Thanks!

 
Aw, you live abroad? I'd help you with that, but you'd have to pay for international shipping in addition to the cost of the card itself. Too bad that Creative hardware is generally overpriced outside of the US, as far as I can tell.
 
You see, most of the PC sound cards we recommend basically make the Mixamp redundant because they have features like Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D Headphone right in their drivers. They also tend to support older PC games with hardware-accelerated audio better. That is what I mean by sound cards providing more features at less cost.
 
How much can you get an Asus Xonar DG for in your area? I hope it's more in line with our US$30 prices, and it's the budget sound card I usually recommend when X-Fi Titaniums aren't on sale like that.
 
In other news: using ALchemy 1.35 on the Recon3D did NOT help Thief 1 and 2 one bit. This issue's more complicated than I first suspected, and could very well be a combination of the hardware and ALchemy version used. Maybe I should give 1.43 a shot on the Titanium HD to see what happens.
 
Also, I'm about to try the insane thing: having Recon3D USB and Titanium HD drivers installed simultaneously, for easier comparison. Here's hoping that nothing breaks because of it.
 
...And now that I have, it increasingly looks like getting Thief 1 and 2 to work properly with ALchemy (sound in cutscenes, EAX effects not all out of control with reverb and whatnot) depends less on the ALchemy version used and more on the sound hardware used. X-Fi MB, Recon3D, and other software solutions are right out, but that doesn't explain why I recall the X-Fi Forte acting up while the X-Fi Titanium HD works fine.
 
I also know ALchemy was updated to 1.43, because I checked the DS3D support details through Everest/AIDA64, and it reported 128 hardware channels instead of 64. Oddly enough, it still doesn't show support for EAX 5 under DS3D for the X-Fi while it does for the Recon3D, but no game I know of uses EAX 5 through DS3D instead of OpenAL anyway.

 

[robwalton]

Quote:

 
Aw, you live abroad? I'd help you with that, but you'd have to pay for international shipping in addition to the cost of the card itself. Too bad that Creative hardware is generally overpriced outside of the US, as far as I can tell.
 
You see, most of the PC sound cards we recommend basically make the Mixamp redundant because they have features like Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D Headphone right in their drivers. They also tend to support older PC games with hardware-accelerated audio better. That is what I mean by sound cards providing more features at less cost.
 
How much can you get an Asus Xonar DG for in your area? I hope it's more in line with our US$30 prices, and it's the budget sound card I usually recommend when X-Fi Titaniums aren't on sale like that.

 
International shipping isn't much of an issue for me, since a Asus Xonar DG is about $90 bucks and up here, so it is way more expensive than just importing, specially since I think I won't get taxed with a 40 dollar card (I guess it is 49.99 now, but still a nice deal). Pretty much everything is double the price here.
 
Do you know any place that would ship cards internationally?
 
If I got a better sound card, do you think I would be able to output it to my Mixamp and only use it as an Amp, keeping the surround effect from the card intact?
 
EDIT: Cheap idea here: If I output the DTS sound from my motherboard, or a Xonar 5.1 through the 3.5 cable, plug it into the Mixamp and turn off the Dolby Effect, will I get a better sound positioning than what I have right now, as if the sound was only being amplified by the MixAmp, but not messed with?

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

International shipping isn't much of an issue for me, since a Asus Xonar DG is about $90 bucks and up here, so it is way more expensive than just importing, specially since I think I won't get taxed with a 40 dollar card (I guess it is 49.99 now, but still a nice deal). Pretty much everything is double the price here.
 
Do you know any place that would ship cards internationally?
 
If I got a better sound card, do you think I would be able to output it to my Mixamp and only use it as an Amp, keeping the surround effect from the card intact?
 
EDIT: Cheap idea here: If I output the DTS sound from my motherboard, or a Xonar 5.1 through the 3.5 cable, plug it into the Mixamp and turn off the Dolby Effect, will I get a better sound positioning than what I have right now, as if the sound was only being amplified by the MixAmp, but not messed with?

 
$90? Ridiculous! That's triple the price for a fairly low-end card! I guess you're in one of the places with ridiculous computer parts prices...
 
I don't really know the sites that ship internationally, but what I can do is have you send me the money for the card and international shipping over PayPal, I order the card myself, and then ship it to you. I've helped people out like that before, so they can vouch for me.
 
You could, in theory, leave the Mixamp's Dolby Headphone mode off, and then it acts as a straight S/PDIF stereo DAC/amp. The important thing is to make sure that the sound card outputs a surround mix for headphones in stereo PCM format over S/PDIF. I know X-Fi cards can do this; not sure about Xonar/C-Media cards in general since there's a lot of conflicting reports.
 
Enabling DTS on a sound card will just result in you getting NO sound because the Mixamp cannot decode the signal in the first place! Again, for what you're suggesting to work, you need a stereo PCM signal that's already had the headphone surround mix done to it.

 

[robwalton]

I don't really know the sites that ship internationally, but what I can do is have you send me the money for the card and international shipping over PayPal, I order the card myself, and then ship it to you. I've helped people out like that before, so they can vouch for me.

 
Well, that sure is an interesting proposition, specially for the refurb X-Fi, which would save me a lot of cash.
 
Everything imported is expensive here, you should see how much we pay for cars, you would not believe!
 
How much dos international shipping cost?
 
But are you sure you wouldn't mind doing this, seems very nice of you to offer! Drop me a message if you think it is fine with you and we can talk further.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

Well, that sure is an interesting proposition, specially for the refurb X-Fi, which would save me a lot of cash.
 
Everything imported is expensive here, you should see how much we pay for cars, you would not believe!
 
How much dos international shipping cost?
 
But are you sure you wouldn't mind doing this, seems very nice of you to offer! Drop me a message if you think it is fine with you and we can talk further.

 
Check your PM inbox.

 

[Phos]

OK, this is an interesting thing I've happened upon something unusual: A bunch of demo files from individual HRTF profiles.  These are usually averaged together but here we have files based on single individuals, check it out:
 
http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/sounds.html
 
I also found an ambisonics player that kind of works and supports HRTF, but it seems to have never reached an actually useful state considering that the author seems to doubt his own implementation:
 
https://sites.google.com/a/klaveness.info/www/ambisonics-player

 

[HalidePisces]

NamelessPFG, have you checked out German eBay? There's a few for X-Fi Elite Pro cards for sale. As of this post, there's one going for 100 EUR, but a few have sold for around 60 EUR. I don't know if international shipping would be an issue, but it seems like a good deal even if you'd need someone to help with that. Better than waiting until PCI slots are completely phased out of motherboards?
 
So the USB sound cards are pretty much glorified MixAmps (or any other portable DAC)? I'm a bit surprised Creative is releasing internal sound cards later this year. Does Windows 8 do something for hardware audio? The Z-Series seems to be better than the Recon3D but still far behind the X-Fi. It seems to have less multimedia input support, but that's been a trend now (X-Fi Elite Pro -> X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty -> X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty/Recon3D). No mention of EAX makes me a bit wary; probably means it's better for newer games than for semi-retro gaming. And unless they changed the name, not sure if CMSS is still around. In the end, higher SNR is the only thing it really has going for it.