[ODDEEO]

I guess my loudness switch works differently than your loudness switches...

 

[ODDEEO]

Important info that may have been ignored: My amp sounds no different than the output of an iPod until the loudness switch is ON.

 

[ODDEEO]

The mix, (without loudness) in my Nikko amp sounds like all midrange. With the loudness on, it sounds like a perfectly "flat" signal... Just with more POWER, not VOLUME.

 

[ODDEEO]

I just can't picture people mixing albums with that kind of "iPod" sound... I've used headphones plugged right into headphone outputs on professional boards before, and it definitely sounds a lot closer to the sound of my amp with loudness ON, not OFF.

 

[ab initio]

 
Or, perhaps you've simply gotten used to the way "loudness" sounds, and so when you turn it off it just doesn't sound quite right because it's different.
 
Cheers

 Everything you're describing is consistent with a) your loudness feature imparts an equalization  and b) whenever you switch loudness off, it sounds wrong to you because your ears are accustomed to loudness being on. I'm pretty sure that the 'iPod" sound that you think is off is actually quite accurate according to various measurements around the forums.
 
I'm not sure there's much more to discuss here.
 
Cheers

 

[ODDEEO]

But if it sounds exactly the same as the direct output from my computer without loudness, then what's the point of having an amp at all?

 

[ODDEEO]

I mean, it only sounds like an amp when the loudness switch is on. I'm used to listening both ways, and there's no way that what I'm hearing without loudness is even similar to what the headphone output of the board, in the studio, where the album that I'm listening to was made. No "pro" mixing board or amp I've heard has sounded any less powerful than my amp WITH loudness. I just don't get how an amp like this can sound so close to an iPod, without "loudness". I've heard mixes directly out of large, mixing boards' headphone outs at live shows, into headphones such as ATH M50s and even through a pair Shure SRH-840s. That sound is very similar to that of my amp with "loudness", and WAY more "powerful" than any direct output from a computer or portable device. I just wish you could hear what I'm hearing. My amp literally sounds like a ****ty little iPod without "loudness". Turning bass or treble up on my amp doesn't have the same effect as turning loudness on. Even though people say "loudness just boosts bass", it just can't be true, at least in my case. The only way I can get a similar sound to that of a regular mixing board, is to turn loudness ON.

 

[ab initio]

  But if it sounds exactly the same as the direct output from my computer without loudness, then what's the point of having an amp at all?

That is a great question!
 
There seems to be a lot of confusion in the HiFi world about what the purpose of amplifiers is. An amplifier is supposed to amplify an electrical audio signal to drive the transducers in speakers or headphones to create the sound (pressure waves) that we hear with our ears.
 
Line-level audio signals don't have the current or the voltage required to drive loudspeakers. Therefore, an amplifier is required to take the high output impedance line level signal and to amplify the voltage (i.e., provide voltage gain) and to supply the necessary current. The output of the amp is a low output impedance source that can drive enough power through the transducers to produce loud enough audio.
 
Your computer's headphone output already has an amplifier built in. For average headphones, you really don't need an amplifier at all. However, sometimes there are issues with the default amplifier built into equipment where headphone audio is an afterthought in the design process (e.g., computers, AV receivers, etc.) and things like high background noise levels or high output impedance causes the headphone output to be less-than-ideal. Sometimes, certain headphones (like 600 Ohm headphones) require higher than normal voltage to achieve desired loudness levels, or some headphones (like HE-6) have very low efficiency and require higher than normal amperage to achieve the desired loudness, or sometimes even very sensitive headphones might require a better amplifier circuitry to decrease the noise floor to prevent loud background hiss. In these cases, a dedicated HiFi headphone amplifier might improve the fidelity of the sound reproduction over the stock headphone output.
 
Amplifiers are not supposed to change the audio signal, they are supposed to amplify it. There are tools that are used for modifying the audio signal in controlled and repeatable ways. Those devices are called equalizers, compressors, digital signal processors, etc..., and they can be implemented in hardware or in software.
 
I use a headphone amp because
a) my laptop's and desktop's headphone jacks are extremely noisy, and I find the background noise extremely distracting, so I got a stand alone DAC (Schiit Modi) that has a much much much much cleaner output than my soundcards. The Modi only has line level rca-outputs, therefore, I need a headphone amplifier to drive my headphones.
b) i have a pair of Paradox (modded t50rp) that is relatively inefficient compared to my other headphones and I find the volume lacking when I use it  from my tablet, phone, or computer. and even with the inefficiency, I still hear the background hiss from my sound cards. Therefore, I use a headphone amplifier (Schiit Magni) that gives me a louder, cleaner output.
 
Hope this helps!
 
Cheers

 

[ab initio]

  I mean, it only sounds like an amp when the loudness switch is on. I'm used to listening both ways, and there's no way that what I'm hearing without loudness is even similar to what the headphone output of the board, in the studio, where the album that I'm listening to was made. No "pro" mixing board or amp I've heard has sounded any less powerful than my amp WITH loudness. I just don't get how an amp like this can sound so close to an iPod, without "loudness". I've heard mixes directly out of large, mixing boards' headphone outs at live shows, into headphones such as ATH M50s and even through a pair Shure SRH-840s. That sound is very similar to that of my amp with "loudness", and WAY more "powerful" than any direct output from a computer or portable device. I just wish you could hear what I'm hearing. My amp literally sounds like a ****ty little iPod without "loudness". Turning bass or treble up on my amp doesn't have the same effect as turning loudness on. Even though people say "loudness just boosts bass", it just can't be true, at least in my case. The only way I can get a similar sound to that of a regular mixing board, is to turn loudness ON.

 
Why don't you take a 30 second clip of music where you think the difference between loudness on and off is very very apparent and save it as a .wav. Then play that through your amp with loudness on, and record the output with your sound card and save that as a wav. Then post the two files and I will tell you what's different.
 
Cheers

 

[cjl]

  I mean, it only sounds like an amp when the loudness switch is on. I'm used to listening both ways, and there's no way that what I'm hearing without loudness is even similar to what the headphone output of the board, in the studio, where the album that I'm listening to was made. No "pro" mixing board or amp I've heard has sounded any less powerful than my amp WITH loudness. I just don't get how an amp like this can sound so close to an iPod, without "loudness". I've heard mixes directly out of large, mixing boards' headphone outs at live shows, into headphones such as ATH M50s and even through a pair Shure SRH-840s. That sound is very similar to that of my amp with "loudness", and WAY more "powerful" than any direct output from a computer or portable device. I just wish you could hear what I'm hearing. My amp literally sounds like a ****ty little iPod without "loudness". Turning bass or treble up on my amp doesn't have the same effect as turning loudness on. Even though people say "loudness just boosts bass", it just can't be true, at least in my case. The only way I can get a similar sound to that of a regular mixing board, is to turn loudness ON.

What do you mean when you say it sounds "powerful"? An amplifier shouldn't change the character of the sound at all, ideally - it should only make it sound louder (if desired) and buffer the output of a device not designed to drive a low-impedance load. If your amp sounds noticeably different from your computer output with the "loudness" switch on, but identical with it off, chances are that it's applying some kind of equalization/tone controls with the switch on, and the sound with it off (and directly out of your computer) is in fact the accurate signal.
 
(Oh, and for what it's worth, iPods have very respectable headphone outputs, and as long as you aren't trying to drive any ridiculously hard to drive headphones like an HE-6, are plenty adequate without an external amp)

 

[ODDEEO]

I've been using AKG k240 monitors (circa 1985) that are supposedly 600 ohm headphones... 

 

[kraken2109]

Does it say in the specs of your amp what the loudness button is doing?
For example a Pioneer amp (vintage) I was using the other day said the loudness button gave an 11dB boost at 100Hz and a 6dB boost at 6kHz (I think, from memory).

 

[davidsh]

The most correct setting would be to leave the loudness switch off in general.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spyro]

Put the BASS word aside for a minute.
It adds a enveloping and very pleasurable "fullness of sound" to the presentation.  Just like 6" bookshelf speakers versus 3-way 8" or 10" woofer floor speakers.  It's not so much about the bass thump thump but more about a fuller sound.  I love it.

 

[LayLay]

I'm experimenting with loudness right now, hard to decide.
 
For what it's worth though, switching on the loudness and lowering the volume appropriately preserves that satisfying punch to the music yet makes the listening less fatiguing. The above post by the purple dragon about the fullness of sound may be onto something, it sure can sound very pleasant. Also the OPs observations about the output coming out of the mixing consoles being similar to loudness-enabled amps is interesting.