[TubeStack]

I was seduced by the allure of having instant access to tens of thousands of songs (mostly obtained for free), everywhere I went, and used 256 or 320 kbps AAC/MP3 files for the past 4 years, starting with my first iPod purchase.

Always had an undercurrent of dissatisfaction and a sinking, sick feeling that I'd settled for sound quality with which I wasn't truly happy, but stuck with it because of the infinite amounts of music available easily, quickly, and often freely, as well as the ease in accessing it all, anywhere, any time.

However, the nagging discontent remained, and I sought change after change in my various listening setups, trying to improve and meet the remembered sounds of original, hard copy formats (vinyl, cassettes, CDs).

Vastly upgrading my home stereo and headphone setup was the final nail in the coffin of my relationship with lossy audio. 320 kbps just doesn't cut it and the difference is hugely noticeable when compared with CDs or Apple Lossless files.

And, owning a 160GB iPod Classic has made it possible to go lossless and still have at least a few thousand songs in my pocket at all times.

So, just a couple days ago, I pressed 'DELETE' on my entire music library of high bit-rate MP3/AAC files. I've since been having a blast rebuilding it with Apple Lossless files, and have been having an even bigger blast listening to the results. I am so much happier!

I feel like a new person and like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders... I can truly and honestly love and enjoy all my music, once again. (Dramatic, I know, but the truth!

)

In regards to the question, how long will lossy formats remain, I agree with those who have said they will stick around a long time. It's just too easy, convenient, and widespread, and people just don't care enough and/or can't hear the difference anyway.

 

[TubeStack]

On a related topic, what about the future of large-storage portable audio players?

If Apple's decision to kill the 160GB iPod (replacing it with a 120GB version) is any indication, it's not good.

I would LOVE to see a 300 or 500 GB iPod Classic down the road, someday... but what are the chances? Not much, methinks.

 

[Punnisher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TubeStack /img/forum/go_quote.gif On a related topic, what about the future of large-storage portable audio players? If Apple's decision to kill the 160GB iPod (replacing it with a 120GB version) is any indication, it's not good. I would LOVE to see a 300 or 500 GB iPod Classic down the road, someday... but what are the chances? Not much, methinks.

It would be nice, but I think the market isn't there. Most people have far less music than some in this thread with thousands of albums. Catering to those few wouldn't be a good business decision.

 

[aloksatoor]

and dont underestimate technology

it has a nasty way of chewing thru any storage u throw at it .... u say now that ur okay with lossless audio but if Super ACDs DVD audio get real popular, we are back to sqaure one..... storage is gonna dry up real soon

compression is never goin away

 

[Ham Sandwich]

A deathwatch is still premature. It will be a long wait before the primary online sources for buying music go lossless (places like Amazon or iTunes Store). The big stumbling block there will be dumbing down the technology enough so that the average consumer can download a lossless file and get it to work on their portable MP3 player. Amazon and similar shops need to keep it dumbed down enough so that they don't have a huge support problem with people not knowing how to get the files to work on their various portable players.

The shops that cater to audiophiles can go lossless because the people who shop there are knowledgeable about different formats and know how to transcode if necessary. The people who shop at Amazon MP3 are not necessarily so knowledgeable.

Just on that factor alone there is going to be a lot of reluctance for mass market shops to offer lossless downloads. The problems with end user support are going to be an anchor dragging down any proposal to sell lossless files.

 

[pata2001]

Lossy will remain.
1. MP3 is widely supported in any devices. Until all devices support the same lossless format, lossless won't be mainstream.
2. Modern lossy codecs are pretty much transparent at around 128kbps or higher for most people.
3. As someone already stated, more and more ISPs are putting bandwidth caps, even as ridiculously low as 1GB.

 

[Real Man of Genius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TubeStack /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was seduced by the allure of having instant access to tens of thousands of songs (mostly obtained for free), everywhere I went, and used 256 or 320 kbps AAC/MP3 files for the past 4 years, starting with my first iPod purchase. Always had an undercurrent of dissatisfaction and a sinking, sick feeling that I'd settled for sound quality with which I wasn't truly happy, but stuck with it because of the infinite amounts of music available easily, quickly, and often freely, as well as the ease in accessing it all, anywhere, any time. However, the nagging discontent remained, and I sought change after change in my various listening setups, trying to improve and meet the remembered sounds of original, hard copy formats (vinyl, cassettes, CDs). Vastly upgrading my home stereo and headphone setup was the final nail in the coffin of my relationship with lossy audio. 320 kbps just doesn't cut it and the difference is hugely noticeable when compared with CDs or Apple Lossless files. And, owning a 160GB iPod Classic has made it possible to go lossless and still have at least a few thousand songs in my pocket at all times. So, just a couple days ago, I pressed 'DELETE' on my entire music library of high bit-rate MP3/AAC files. I've since been having a blast rebuilding it with Apple Lossless files, and have been having an even bigger blast listening to the results. I am so much happier! I feel like a new person and like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders... I can truly and honestly love and enjoy all my music, once again. (Dramatic, I know, but the truth! ) In regards to the question, how long will lossy formats remain, I agree with those who have said they will stick around a long time. It's just too easy, convenient, and widespread, and people just don't care enough and/or can't hear the difference anyway.

Sorry Dude this just sounds OCD to me.

 

[zeroibis]

The real reason they are placing bandwidth caps (in the states at least) is to kill off the future steaming video market that will compete with ondemand. Newer laws are needed to ensure that the quality of the internet continues to increase rather than digress.

On the issue of storage space, the main thing is that currently companies want to be able to market products as durable rather than having high capacity. In other words as SSD tech advances you will see higher capacity devices. Also because of the nature of SSD tech this size increase will occur very very fast in comparison to the speed that HDD sizes increased. 256GB 1.8" drives are already available but only for SATA. As volume increases prices will fall and we will see a return to large capacity drives again.

Think about if from a marketing standpoint right not it is all look we have great quality and battery life because we got SSDs well when everyone is using then what is the selling point, well it is back to the numbers game of look my product has more space and big numbers so you should buy it.

I also think that as more people are exposed to higher quality audio lossless formats will spread and eventually replace CDs as a format. I am waiting to see games and even music being sold on USB key rather than on CD because it is cheaper and more convent. My latest computer does not even have a Disk drive because there is no need for one anymore. Other than to rip files from audio disks, of which I just put in a usb drive for.

 

[Jensen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real Man of Genius /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry Dude this just sounds OCD to me.

If you've been building your music collection for years and thus have older MP3 rips, the difference between lossless and them is huge. Lately I've been re-acquiring lots of good old songs that I have in poor quality in FLAC and it's literally like hearing the song again for the first time.

Granted, modern LAME encoding at V0 is very good, however for certain types of music - mainly instrumental stuff (electronic music doesn't seem to benefit as much) there is a definite discernible difference between MP3 and lossless.

Compression, even LAME V0 or 320, seems to pull the "air" out of the music. It sounds like it's coming from a closet vs an auditorium. That's the best way to describe the differences I hear.

 

[RASeymour]

I'm going lossless because I upgraded my equipment. I didn't notice the problems w/ mp3 before this.

 

[Real Man of Genius]

Yabut - we are in the portable forum right? Which portable can you tell the difference from V0 or 320 from lossless on?

 

[matt_wants]

Why is there so much 'I can't hear it so no-one else can' attitude around here? I find it belittles people who can detect differences. Everyone's ears are different and one person's perceived hearing ability isn't going to be the catch-all for everyone. If you have the hearing range and know the track very well, I bet you'd know what to listen out for to notice the differences. I know I can between 320 AAC and AIFF on my iPod. Recent example, I've been listening to Muse's Plug in Baby since 2001 and listened to it again for the first time since I put Origin of Symmetry across in AIFF and I could hear new sound on the verse which I hadn't before, probably because the AAC version had considered it superfluous.

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TubeStack /img/forum/go_quote.gif 320 kbps just doesn't cut it and the difference is hugely noticeable when compared with CDs or Apple Lossless files.

Hugely noticeable? Wow, so you can do an ABX and get a perfect score when trying to identify 320 kbps from lossless? I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that before...

 

[SDDL-UP]

I think there are a lot of people here that don't want to admit they might have made somewhat of a mistake by ripping all their music to lower quality lossy files. Sure the differences might not be huge in most DAP's, but it is there and it is an undeniable difference. Wheather or not they can hear it is the debate.

As more people become aware that lossless gives them the capability to have true CD sound and lossy limits sound quality, there will be (and already is) a shift to lossless codecs. Memory will increase and get less expensive wheather or not we think there is a "need" for it in our digital audio players.

It is my opinion that everyone should have a CD copy and a lossless copy of that CD. Then if you really must have 5000 songs on your person at all times you can convert these files to a lossy format. It might only be five or ten years until these things can hold every CD most people have ever owned in a lossless format. The lossy codec on the other hand will forever sound inferior.

A temporary reduction in total song capacity or a forever reduction in sound quality?

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDDL-UP /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wheather or not they can hear it is the debate.

Yes, and if you can't hear it then any difference that might exist is meaningless.

I agree that you should always archive in lossless but it is not correct to say that lossy always and absolutely means a SQ decrease. It may or may not depending on the conditions and listener.