[Tim D]

If I wanted to upgrade my source I'd think about DAC or affordable SACD as well. I don't think all-in-one means a simplification of the signal chain however. Outboard DAC benefits in that they have a dedicated power supply and are devoid of all sorts of interference of a mechanical transport section which no doubt contributes a lot to noise. Lets just say that if one is paranoid about running other sorts of electronics on the same outlet as their audio, than you should be just as aware that there is the same noise and interference within the player that can be seperated as well. That is the biggest benefit to dedicated DAC's, as well as having perhaps better analog output stage.

However Sony apparently put a lot of effort into compartmentalizing and reducing these interferences, which otherwise probably would have masked any benefit of SACD. Course I can't say I'm too overwhelmed by the selection of SACD, the entire catalog being able to be displayed on a webpage with album covers. And even with a small selection, knowing that they wasted time on some on albums like Ricky Martin or Journey's Arrival bothers me(which is an incredibly overcompressed CD and I'd love to see what SACD did in comparison, because if they didn't totally remaster it, it would be like supplying a 10 gallon jug for a drop of water).

Anyhow, I would love to see what SACD did to that overcompressed for radio Journey CD. Honestly, that CD is one of the worst I've heard, and now I see it as an SACD selection...if there is one way to make me an SACD believer would be to hear that first cut. If it sounded 100% better, I'd probably be thinking Sony played some dirty tricks in being a different mastering job because that CD is a very recent Sony/Columbia release...and the original was truly just that bad. It would also show me how much SACD might benefit any recording regardless of being overcompressed arena/pop rock. Anyhow, I'm just so curious because on Headwize I actually posted a rant on just how bad Journey's Arrival disc sounded, and now I see it in the SACD catalog so I'm just perplexed. And if the SACD version doesn't turn out to be 300% better (it'd have to be to sound decent over the CD), than we have a candidate for worst SACD recording, and a testament to the value of good mastering over good media.

 

[ai0tron]

thanks MacDef I think i remember hearing that now that you mention it.

Jude went with the 333 and Jude has one of the best systems on the headforums. Since I can't hear it for myself my only choice is to go with it. Plus I like the convenience of a 5-disk changer. Unless anyone has a better idea I think this is the one I am going to save up for.

Thanks

 

[davidcotton]

Not going to reccomend any models here but I would stick with getting a single player. Don't forget about the limited number of plug sockets in any one room of the accommadation

On the subject of multiplayers, the general wisdom in the UK seems to be that a similar priced single deck cd player will pretty much beat the same price multiplayer

Hope that helps...........

For reviews on cd players go to:-

www.audioreview.com

 

[ai0tron]

audioreview.com?? I spend so much time there, and its all inconclusive. Part of the problem with that place is lots of the reviews are outdated. And as dangerous as it is to say most of them are speaker listeners and so have a different perception of what equipment sounds like unless they have ludicrously expensive systems.

 

[jude]

davidcotton,

Man, I've heard a lot of stuff under a grand (and I know there's still a lot of stuff I haven't heard), and the carousel 333 compared very favorably to anything I heard under $1000 -- actually it was the best of what I've heard (to my ears) in that range.

There seems to be an carousel stigma with audiophiles, but if you've seen a 333 at all, I think you'd be surprised with its build. In fact, Stereophile reported the 333's measured jitter to be quite low, and had very solid measured performance throughout (not that measured performance is necessarily the most important thing).

Some key quotes from the review:

Quote:

"Error correction was superb; the Sony...did not skip until track 34 of the Pierre Verany Test CD, which has 2mm gaps in its data spiral." "Finally, because the Sony uses a dual-wavelength laser pickup, it can play CD-Rs, which meant that I could examine its word-clock jitter with the Miller Audio Research Analyzer. (The analytic test signal used for this test is stored on a CD-R with inherently low time-base error.) The Sony performed superbly well on this test, generating just 167.5 picoseconds of word-clock jitter with this worst-case signal. Fig. 13 shows the spectrum of the 'C333's analog output for 3.5kHz on either side of teh 11.025kHz fundamental. Data-related jitter sidebands (indicated with red numeric markers) all lie below -120dBFS, which is excellent..." "This is excellent measured performance, especially considering the price of the SCD-C333."

The MSRP at the time of that review (it was the April 2001 issue) was $1200. Since it can be had for around $550 or less now, it's definitely a player to consider in the under-$1000 range whether it's a carousel or not.

 

[Brian]

Yea, if you're looking to spend under $1000 on a CDP, the SCD-333es is definately a good choice, especially for about $550, it's a steal! I'm looking to get one as soon as i can save/scam enough cash. The one thing to note about that cdp is i've heard it has an abnormally long break-in period, like somewhere around 100 hours....that shouldnt be a problem though, Im sure youd be listening to it all day, every day.

Also, check this out!!: If you wanna spend some more money, for around $350? you can get your 333ES modded out by http://www.modwright.com ... His mods look really nice with some new capacitors and such, better connections and new opamps I think (check it out yourself), so for a total of $900 you'd have something like a poor mans 777ES. Then spend the other $100 on some really good rca cables...that's what I'm planning on doing for a $1000 budget....well either that or buying 500 earbud phones and making a 360 Degree Turbo Surround Sound UltraHeadphone5000™.

 

[Brian]

Oh yea, here you go
This is the info about the 333ES mods taken directly from the ModWright website:

"Sony SCD333ES SACD/CD Player Mods

Upgrade power supply with Schottky rectifiers and further mods to lower the noise floor
Upgrade key analog power supply capacitors to Black Gates
Upgrade key digital power supply capacitors to Black Gates and Sanyo OS-CONs
Upgrade all op-amps to ultra-fast Linear Tech. Units with current loading mods

Upgrade key analog signal path resistors to Vishays and Caddocks

Upgrade key analog filter path capacitors to Wima films

Upgrade analog coupling caps to Black Gates with Auricap film capacitor bypass caps

Add an IEC socket for use with removable power cords

Damping mods
Mod Price: $350 + return shipping"

Sounds pretty good!

 

[MacDEF]

To add to Jude's comments about changers vs. single players, I was also wary of changers. But after reading all the great recs for the 333ES, that Stereophile review was actually what made me feel a bit better about the changer

The reviewer himself started the article making a joke about how he couldn't believe he was reviewing a Sony 5-disc changer LOL But after reviewing it he was impressed by the build quality and sound quality. It ended up being a Class A Recommended Component.

 

[pearle]

Any idea what the Arcam CD72 is rated?

- pearle

 

[ai0tron]

The 333es is nowhere to be found on the audiogon classifieds. But there are several 777es' perhaps that speaks well of the 333...

 

[DanG]

Actually, the Sony SCD-C333ES was recommended as a Class B product, not class A. I wonder if it would have been rated Class C if Stereophile knew about its new price?

I can't help but feel that Stereophile is really not such an honest publication. Even if Stereophile does write negative reviews once in a while, it seems that their evaluations, especially the ones claiming to be more objective, are more based upon price first, and reputation second.

The point of all this is that if you can't audition the product, asking questions and even just reading the thoughts of "real" people will be much more helpful than looking to a guide who puts advertisements on the opposite page of the reviews.

About the SCD-777ES: I think it's best to pass this one by. When it cost $1500 new, it was a really good deal. But now that you'd be hard pressed to find a used 777 for under $2300, I'd suggest looking at the new Marantz SA-14 if you're looking in that price range.

The C333ES can be had from Oade Bros for $550 + about $25 shipped. Probably your best bet.

 

[BenG]

In response to the original post, I remeber what it was like to go without the Link. I sold mine and I had to use just my Marantz 63se cdp for a while. I would look into other MSB products like the Gold or Nelson DAC, if the SACD capability of the 333 or 777 isn't that important to you.

MSB deserves a 'Digital Medal of Honor', their Link was the first digital product I really liked.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Actually, the Sony SCD-C333ES was recommended as a Class B product, not class A. I wonder if it would have been rated Class C if Stereophile knew about its new price?

DanG, you're right, my mistake about Class A vs. B. Thanks for pointing that out. And I do agree with you about listening for yourself. On the other hand, Stereophile is usually very snobby about a) Sony and other "consumer" gear; b) CD changers; and c) SACD, DVD, etc. So when they give an inexpensive (by their standards) SACD changer from Sony a Class B rec, to me that's more than a good recommendation

That, combined with the great recommendations I've read here and on other boards, a short in-store demo (which admitedly wasn't revealing considering the store), and a 30-day evaluation period, convinced me to buy it. Turned out to be a great buy.

I have to admit, sometimes I think I agree with you about the price. But every once in a while they do surprise me with an enthusiastic recommendation for an inexpensive product.

My friends and I joke around that if we ever went into the cable business, we would make a good cable that cost around $100 or less to make, but price it at $2000 until it was reviewed. Then we'd lower the price to $150

 

[thomas]

a cable that costs $100 to make? that would definately outperform anything on the market, i doubt anything out there costs more than $20 to make

 

[Redwoood]

Can anybody post the current stereophile recommended list
for CDPs , transports, DACs and such?

We have a lot of threads about CDPs that refer to their ratings...

Bye

Redwoood