[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony6555 /img/forum/go_quote.gif From near the end of the article: "Some advice to manufacturers of these music players: Take a page from Palm's playbook and rig your devices to sync with iTunes.?"

Oh god no. Please don't anyone make a music player that requires iTunes to sync. That's a locked in world of proprietary and getting jerked around by Apple.

I will never ever buy a Touch and the whole reason is because it requires iTunes and I refuse to manage my music library in iTunes. I already have my music library perfectly managed in J. River Media Center thank you very much. Why should I have to reduplicate all that in iTunes just to use a precious iPod Touch? I ain't gonna do it even if you gave me an iPod Touch for free.

The only reason I have an iPod Classic is because J. River Media Center is able to sync it and the iPod Classic does gapless playback. Those are the primary usability features that I care about. I have zero interest in any DAP that requires proprietary software to sync. That means no Zune HD or iPod Touch or iPhone.

 

[epithetless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akki007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Come on, drag yourself into 2009. You might like it!

Meh. As long as all of these "advanced" convergence devices still lag behind Rockbox' impeccable audio feature set and customizability, a Rockboxable player will be my go-to device for portable audio. Thank god for the music/programming enthusiasts who keep the Rockbox initiative alive.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by epithetless /img/forum/go_quote.gif Meh. As long as all of these "advanced" convergence devices still lag behind Rockbox' impeccable audio feature set and customizability, a Rockboxable player will be my go-to device for portable audio. Thank god for the music/programming enthusiasts who keep the Rockbox initiative alive.

I rest my case...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/it...highlight=xp64

It doesn't matter what OS I have on my computer, as long as it has UMS drivers, and supports FAT32 I can copy to it

 

[akki007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by azncookiecutter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Could be just the progression of DAPs he's used.

It is indeed!

 

[akki007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh god no. Please don't anyone make a music player that requires iTunes to sync. That's a locked in world of proprietary and getting jerked around by Apple. I will never ever buy a Touch and the whole reason is because it requires iTunes and I refuse to manage my music library in iTunes. I already have my music library perfectly managed in J. River Media Center thank you very much. Why should I have to reduplicate all that in iTunes just to use a precious iPod Touch? I ain't gonna do it even if you gave me an iPod Touch for free. The only reason I have an iPod Classic is because J. River Media Center is able to sync it and the iPod Classic does gapless playback. Those are the primary usability features that I care about. I have zero interest in any DAP that requires proprietary software to sync. That means no Zune HD or iPod Touch or iPhone.

No matter how you manage your music, you can keep it as it is and use iTunes, you do not need to re-organise it. This is an endless source of confusion for me. Try iTunes. It works. Because of your product ignorance you are missing out on cutting edge technology.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akki007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif No matter how you manage your music, you can keep it as it is and use iTunes, you do not need to re-organise it. This is an endless source of confusion for me. Try iTunes. It works. Because of your product ignorance you are missing out on cutting edge technology.

No, Apple is missing out on me because they force iTunes. It's their loss not mine.

I already have playlists in J. River Media Center. I spent time making them, it has smartlists based on various conditions. Why should I duplicate all that in iTunes when I already have it all done in the superior media player I use? I also rename albums regularly which causes the folder the album is in to be renamed as well. Trying to keep that in sync with a second or third media player with changes to the tags and folders would be more trouble than it is worth. iTunes also doesn't do FLAC and my library is in FLAC.

So no. I'm not going to use iTunes or the Zune software. I'll stick with DAPs that don't drag me around through their proprietary software.

I also can't use a Touch with gloves on (I bicycle and usually use full finger gloves).

 

[Ssnake51]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, Apple is missing out on me because they force iTunes. It's their loss not mine. I already have playlists in J. River Media Center. I spent time making them, it has smartlists based on various conditions. Why should I duplicate all that in iTunes when I already have it all done in the superior media player I use? I also rename albums regularly which causes the folder the album is in to be renamed as well. Trying to keep that in sync with a second or third media player with changes to the tags and folders would be more trouble than it is worth. iTunes also doesn't do FLAC and my library is in FLAC. So no. I'm not going to use iTunes or the Zune software. I'll stick with DAPs that don't drag me around through their proprietary software. I also can't use a Touch with gloves on (I bicycle and usually use full finger gloves).

Looks to me like you have locked yourself into J. River Media Center software. That's fine if you like it. But I see little difference between doing that and locking oneself into say iTunes.

Sure iTunes is 'propietary' but it is one fine piece of software that does a great job in helping one handle their media library. I'm glad I found that out before ripping all my stuff to FLAC. Now I just rip to WAVE or Apple Lossless. iTunes handles either one just dandy. As well as stuff I have in MP3.

 

[Antony6555]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ssnake51 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks to me like you have locked yourself into J. River Media Center software. That's fine if you like it. But I see little difference between doing that and locking oneself into say iTunes.

People prefer different media players for various reasons. The problem with Apple is that they force their player on people who, for whatever reason, prefer other players.

Also, I'm with Tsarn on these portable multimedia players. Performance is more important than having loads of features to me, some if which are nice but most of which I won't use too much.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ssnake51 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks to me like you have locked yourself into J. River Media Center software. That's fine if you like it. But I see little difference between doing that and locking oneself into say iTunes. Sure iTunes is 'propietary' but it is one fine piece of software that does a great job in helping one handle their media library. I'm glad I found that out before ripping all my stuff to FLAC. Now I just rip to WAVE or Apple Lossless. iTunes handles either one just dandy. As well as stuff I have in MP3.

I'm not locked in to J. River Media Center. I can choose to use a different media player if I want to. My library is well tagged and organized by directory so changing to a different media player/manager would be possible. There just doesn't happen to be a better media player available (for my needs) to switch to. The point is I can make the change to a different media player when I want to not when I buy a new DAP from a new manufacturer and am forced to use their media player to manage my library.

The fundamental problem is that it is only practical to have one primary media player at a time managing a library. That is doubly true for media players that rely on a database to manage the library. You can't have one media player changing things behind the back of the other media player. The databases would get all confused, playlists will break, info on what files are currently synced on the portable would get broken. It would be a mess.

The solution to that problem is to make DAPs with open standards that any third-party media player can sync and manage. Then the customer gets to choose the media player that they want to use. Apple and Microsoft don't want to do things that way. You can choose to go down that road, I choose not to.

The other problem is that Apple does ALAC. Microsoft does WMA Lossless. Everyone else (most everyone else) does FLAC or WMA Lossless. Doesn't seem to be a lot of cooperation there in allowing consumers to choose a suitable lossless format. Anything you choose is going to be incompatible with some other popular DAP or the proprietary software necessary to manage the DAP.

My library is over 600 CDs. If I only had 60 CDs it would be much easier to manage and could even be practical to have multiple copies of my library and multiple media player/managers in use. One copy of the library for the iPhone, one copy for the Zune HD, and one copy for the PC based media server. But multiple those 60 CDs by 10 and it becomes a more difficult problem.

God I hate software (I work in software development, imagine that).

 

[Ssnake51]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony6555 /img/forum/go_quote.gif People prefer different media players for various reasons. The problem with Apple is that they force their player on people who, for whatever reason, prefer other players.

Afraid I don't get that. You can organize your music library any you like and then just drag and drop what you wish into your ipod with itunes. Really not much different than using windows explorer to do the same thing.

 

[Ssnake51]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not locked in to J. River Media Center. I can choose to use a different media player if I want to. My library is well tagged and organized by directory so changing to a different media player/manager would be possible. There just doesn't happen to be a better media player available (for my needs) to switch to. The point is I can make the change to a different media player when I want to not when I buy a new DAP from a new manufacturer and am forced to use their media player to manage my library. The fundamental problem is that it is only practical to have one primary media player at a time managing a library. That is doubly true for media players that rely on a database to manage the library. You can't have one media player changing things behind the back of the other media player. The databases would get all confused, playlists will break, info on what files are currently synced on the portable would get broken. It would be a mess. The solution to that problem is to make DAPs with open standards that any third-party media player can sync and manage. Then the customer gets to choose the media player that they want to use. Apple and Microsoft don't want to do things that way. You can choose to go down that road, I choose not to. The other problem is that Apple does ALAC. Microsoft does WMA Lossless. Everyone else (most everyone else) does FLAC or WMA Lossless. Doesn't seem to be a lot of cooperation there in allowing consumers to choose a suitable lossless format. Anything you choose is going to be incompatible with some other popular DAP or the proprietary software necessary to manage the DAP. My library is over 600 CDs. If I only had 60 CDs it would be much easier to manage and could even be practical to have multiple copies of my library and multiple media player/managers in use. One copy of the library for the iPhone, one copy for the Zune HD, and one copy for the PC based media server. But multiple those 60 CDs by 10 and it becomes a more difficult problem. God I hate software (I work in software development, imagine that).

Well Apple doesn't force you to use iTunes to manage and organize your music library. It provides an option in iTunes to allow you the freedom to tweak your library as you wish. It is quite easy to drag and drop any files from your music library into an ipod. You don't have to create a second copy of your library to use iTunes any more than you need to create a second copy if you use windows explorer to drag and drop files into your DAP.

I'm more sympathetic to your point about the different types of encoding that are used. To be honest, I was confused for quite some time over the many types of encoded files out there and trying to decide which ones to use.

The good thing is that there are some good conversion programs out there like dBpoweramp that make that task relatively easy, if you decide to go with another file type.

 

[swanlee]

My problem is jack of all trades master of none. It's funny how audio used to be regulated to a nicely setup home stereo, then it was regulated to a portable device, in the future it will be regulated as an after thought to a multi functional device, then later on it may be dropped all together.

Seems a time may come when listening to music will just be a completely after thought.

I don't want to listen to music on my phone, I want a device that excels at audio with ALOT of space to store my lossless audio collection.

 

[swanlee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by azncookiecutter /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you classify an iPod as something that was first introduced to the mass public in the early 2000s, then yes, a dedicated music player (nothing more, nothing less) is a dying trend. Many people, myself included, would rather have one device sitting in their pocket, rather than a multitude of objects. There are exceptions (iPod Shuffle for the gym, audiophile DAPs), but as it stands, this trend of convergence will most likely not die down. As long as companies can keep the march of convergence continuing without major compromises, it seems that majority of consumers will not complain and still buy them.

The major compromise has already happened, we are now paying more for devices with 1/3 less storage then the dedicated audio players.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by epithetless /img/forum/go_quote.gif Meh. As long as all of these "advanced" convergence devices still lag behind Rockbox' impeccable audio feature set and customizability, a Rockboxable player will be my go-to device for portable audio. Thank god for the music/programming enthusiasts who keep the Rockbox initiative alive.

I feel i should point out - again - that there is no legal reason why companies that make specialty DAPs can't just join the rockbox project, port rockbox to their product, and ship with it.

There is the requirement that they actually release the code they write to do this, but the cost/benefit analysis should be very easy for a small, specialty company to understand.

You can write your own feature-poor DAP firmware and maintain it all by yourself, or you can write a bootloader and some drivers for a feature-rich firmware and take advantage of the efforts of dozens of talented programmers.

I get why the toshibas and sandisks of the world don't want rockbox - they need top-down control of the firmware to make DRM support possible and to keep their customer service exposure predictable.

But small companies making specialty devices for advanced consumers have everything to gain and very little to lose.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif I feel i should point out - again - that there is no legal reason why companies that make specialty DAPs can't just join the rockbox project, port rockbox to their product, and ship with it.

If SanDisk did that they would finally have gapless support. How many years have they been promising gapless RSN?

I'd buy a Sansa player if it had gapless.