[kwkarth]

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Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, but what if the scientific explanation doesn't comport with your beliefs? Will you reject the science in favor of your beliefs, or will you change your beliefs in favor of the science? If the former, why attempt to invoke science at all? And if the latter, why hold to a particular belief in the first place? That's why I'm neither a believer nor a non-believer. I'm an un-believer. I hold no rigid beliefs one way or the other. Makes life much more simple. se

Hey, what's with the "no A3 connectors?"

Maybe I used the wrong word to describe me. I guess it might be more appropriate for me to say, I'm a "hearer" and were it not for that experience of "hearing" differences, I would still be adherent to my original camp that burn in makes no difference and interconnects make no difference as long as they're constructed adequately.

So, as a hearer, I quest for a scientific understanding of why I can hear differences. Now, it may be all in my head, but statistically, that does not seem to be the case. If, in the long run, it turns out to be between my ears rather than at them, I'll just enjoy the audio jewelry for its aesthetic beauty.

Because of my training and experience as a recording engineer, among other things, I've spent many years listing to live music and capturing that in a recorded medium. In so doing, my ears have become "calibrated" to real life and all its magnificent subtleties. When I first discovered differences in cables it was something quite unexpected, and somewhat disturbing to one in my original camp.

 

[kwkarth]

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's guidelines for a spec, because different lengths and applications will change the spec no matter what you do.

Nothing about construction quality?

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif You mean your stated criteria. No matter what there still is no proof that "properly" (objectively) made cables will show a difference. All I did was actually test it to gain proof for me of the contrary, and at least did some testing that showed something for me.

Your small sample size was statistically insignificant, therefore of no real value.

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif don't believe I ever brought up qualifications?

If it's not qualified, it's meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif Really? Why don't you have proof of why cables sound so different then? Where's the evidence? Please, do tell.

Read the rest of the thread, I'm looking for proof, just like you were looking for proof not.

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is built right? Are you honestly this pedantic? Obviously if the cable is made for use in audio, it shouldn't allow for negative impact on the audio band. In other words little to no deviation from the intended signal going from point A to point B.

I asked the question first. My pedanticism is in response to your dogmatism.

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif course, but that's a poorly built or abused cable.

You might be surprised by how many supposedly "good" cables are poorly built. TDR is a good way to see that.

Look, I would really like to see you open your mind and ears a bit to the possibility that you might not have this all figured out. The dogmatic approach to life which you seem to have will deprive you of many wonders.

Such an approach is also the proclivity of the young, so you must be. You can take that as a compliment.

 

[haloxt]

I don't know why you're getting on Shike's back for. Anti-cablers are correct that the vast majority of tests done to date tend towards their conclusion more. Pro-cablers and pro-burn-in people have an uphill battle to face, and its only friends are 1. preponderance of anecdotal evidence and 2. the possibility that tests could be done in the future that do reveal an audible difference in cables or burn-in. Until that day comes, when pro-cablers say they hear a difference it is merely anecdotal evidence and science is not on their side.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, what's with the "no A3 connectors?"

Actually those would be E3 connectors. A3's are cable end connectors.

And it's not "no XLR connectors," it's "no dual three pin XLR connectors for 'balanced' headphone amps and cables." I'm lobbying to retroactively abort that abomination and to try and get the high end corner of the industry to adopt the single four pin regular and mini XLR as the non-standard "standard."

Care to join the crusade?

Quote:

Maybe I used the wrong word to describe me. I guess it might be more appropriate for me to say, I'm a "hearer" and were it not for that experience of "hearing" differences, I would still be adherent to my original camp that burn in makes no difference and interconnects make no difference as long as they're constructed adequately. So, as a hearer, I quest for a scientific understanding of why I can hear differences. Now, it may be all in my head, but statistically, that does not seem to be the case. If, in the long run, it turns out to be between my ears rather than at them, I'll just enjoy the audio jewelry for its aesthetic beauty.

Ah, ok. I seem to recall during our chat that we were pretty much of the same mind on this. It just didn't quite read that way in your post.

Quote:

Because of my training and experience as a recording engineer, among other things, I've spent many years listing to live music and capturing that in a recorded medium. In so doing, my ears have become "calibrated" to real life and all its magnificent subtleties. When I first discovered differences in cables it was something quite unexpected, and somewhat disturbing to one in my original camp.

But we have to guard against letting our egos and our vanity get the better of us.

Training and experience can certainly give one an advantage over others when it comes to noticing that which is there, but it doesn't necessarily serve as an effective immunization against simply being human and being subject to those things which all humans are susceptible.

I've a good friend who also has many years of training and experience as a recording engineer. But that didn't prevent him from once spending several hours EQing a final mix only to eventually discover that the EQ wasn't patched into the console.

It was a humbling experience for him and a lesson in the fact that we are all mere mortal human beings.

se

 

[Aynjell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually those would be E3 connectors. A3's are cable end connectors. And it's not "no XLR connectors," it's "no dual three pin XLR connectors for 'balanced' headphone amps and cables." I'm lobbying to retroactively abort that abomination and to try and get the high end corner of the industry to adopt the single four pin regular and mini XLR as the non-standard "standard." Care to join the crusade? Ah, ok. I seem to recall during our chat that we were pretty much of the same mind on this. It just didn't quite read that way in your post. But we have to guard against letting our egos and our vanity get the better of us. Training and experience can certainly give one an advantage over others when it comes to noticing that which is there, but it doesn't necessarily serve as an effective immunization against simply being human and being subject to those things which all humans are susceptible. I've a good friend who also has many years of training and experience as a recording engineer. But that didn't prevent him from once spending several hours EQing a final mix only to eventually discover that the EQ wasn't patched into the console. It was a humbling experience for him and a lesson in the fact that we are all mere mortal human beings. se

More than 1 plug at the end of a cable is silly to me. I'd rather just have one. I'm with ya'.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aynjell /img/forum/go_quote.gif More than 1 plug at the end of a cable is silly to me. I'd rather just have one. I'm with ya'.

Groovy!

Maybe I should get some buttons and t-shirts made up to hand out to supporters.

se

 

[Aynjell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Groovy! Maybe I should get some buttons and t-shirts made up to hand out to supporters. se

Aren't only 2 only used pins used? 1 is signal, 1 is active ground?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aynjell /img/forum/go_quote.gif Aren't only 2 only used pins used? 1 is signal, 1 is active ground?

You mean in the dual 3 pin arrangement?

se

 

[Aynjell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif You mean in the dual 3 pin arrangement? se

I should have been more specific, 6 pins total, 4 are used, 2 per plug, each plug has a signal and a ground (total 2 signal 2 ground)... right?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually those would be E3 connectors. A3's are cable end connectors. And it's not "no XLR connectors," it's "no dual three pin XLR connectors for 'balanced' headphone amps and cables." I'm lobbying to retroactively abort that abomination and to try and get the high end corner of the industry to adopt the single four pin regular and mini XLR as the non-standard "standard." Care to join the crusade?

Absolutely! Count me in Bro!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, ok. I seem to recall during our chat that we were pretty much of the same mind on this. It just didn't quite read that way in your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif But we have to guard against letting our egos and our vanity get the better of us.

I totally agree, so if it helps, I have no cause other than the pursuit of the truth, and you can count me as wrong until I get there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Training and experience can certainly give one an advantage over others when it comes to noticing that which is there, but it doesn't necessarily serve as an effective immunization against simply being human and being subject to those things which all humans are susceptible.

Agreed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've a good friend who also has many years of training and experience as a recording engineer. But that didn't prevent him from once spending several hours EQing a final mix only to eventually discover that the EQ wasn't patched into the console.

I've not managed that trick before, but I have been guilty of over EQ'ing mixes, particularly in my early days, especially when I would become enamored with a new effect, I would tend to overuse it until the newness wore off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif It was a humbling experience for him and a lesson in the fact that we are all mere mortal human beings. se

How true!

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know why you're getting on Shike's back for. Anti-cablers are correct that the vast majority of tests done to date tend towards their conclusion more. Pro-cablers and pro-burn-in people have an uphill battle to face, and its only friends are 1. preponderance of anecdotal evidence and 2. the possibility that tests could be done in the future that do reveal an audible difference in cables or burn-in. Until that day comes, when pro-cablers say they hear a difference it is merely anecdotal evidence and science is not on their side.

Sorry for the appearance of getting on someone's back. As I explained in my last reply to Shike, my intent was to help Shike realize that dogmatism is a very limiting approach to life. There is a vast difference between open mindedness and falling for anything. You forgot to cite one more factor for "pro-cablers/pro-burn-in" proponents... Hearing a difference. Since one can't prove a negative, any evidence to the contrary for cable differences is anecdotal as well. That's why the controversy persists lo, these many years.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aynjell /img/forum/go_quote.gif I should have been more specific, 6 pins total, 4 are used, 2 per plug, each plug has a signal and a ground (total 2 signal 2 ground)... right?

Right.

From what I'm told, dual three pin came about when someone took two unbalanced stereo amps and bridged the channels together to create a "balanced" amp. Two XLRs were required because the two amps were in separate chassis.

It was a kludge that worked for that particular situation, but it should have never been carried over once "balanced" amps started being made in a single chassis.

se

 

[Steve Eddy]

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Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Absolutely! Count me in Bro!

Great!

Maybe I'll place an order with SpeedyButtons.com after all.

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I totally agree, so if it helps, I have no cause other than the pursuit of the truth, and you can count me as wrong until I get there.

Hehehe.

Fair 'nuff!

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I've not managed that trick before, but I have been guilty of over EQ'ing mixes, particularly in my early days, especially when I would become enamored with a new effect, I would tend to overuse it until the newness wore off.

Know what you mean. And for me that extended to guitar effects as well.

se

 

[Shike]

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Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nothing about construction quality?

I'm pretty sure being built to spec (for a specific purpose) would include it be built properly.

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Your small sample size was statistically insignificant, therefore of no real value.

To you.

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If it's not qualified, it's meaningless.

It was done with gear and someone that was more than qualified. Just because I don't have everything in front of me since two years ago doesn't mean it wasn't.

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Read the rest of the thread, I'm looking for proof, just like you were looking for proof not.

And you have none to speak of.

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I asked the question first. My pedanticism is in response to your dogmatism.

Heaven forbid stating a fact as fact not make you dogmatic. If anyone's dogmatic it tends to be cable believers, as it's an assertion of "opinion" without any proof whatsoever.

Quote:

You might be surprised by how many supposedly "good" cables are poorly built. TDR is a good way to see that.

So?

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Look, I would really like to see you open your mind and ears a bit to the possibility that you might not have this all figured out. The dogmatic approach to life which you seem to have will deprive you of many wonders.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

It's cable believers that assert we must hold their "opinion" as fact, and then often have the nerve to hide behind the assertion that's it's an "opinion" that can not be disproved.

Like math, things of science can and are tested. If nothing else we can use DBT to show that, quite frankly, they're statistically (and as such factually) wrong.

This aspect can't be refuted, as there's plenty of white papers that has been provided time and time again.

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Such an approach is also the proclivity of the young, so you must be. You can take that as a compliment.

No, I take that as an insult with a contradictory sentence. That's like someone wishing you dead then saying "God Bless".

Age has nothing to do with wisdom nor intelligence. People would like to think these always correlate, but alas as shown by many it does not.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm pretty sure being built to spec (for a specific purpose) would include it be built properly. To you. It was done with gear and someone that was more than qualified. Just because I don't have everything in front of me since two years ago doesn't mean it wasn't. And you have none to speak of. Heaven forbid stating a fact as fact not make you dogmatic. If anyone's dogmatic it tends to be cable believers, as it's an assertion of "opinion" without any proof whatsoever. So? "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." It's cable believers that assert we must hold their "opinion" as fact, and then often have the nerve to hide behind the assertion that's it's an "opinion" that can not be disproved. Like math, things of science can and are tested. If nothing else we can use DBT to show that, quite frankly, they're statistically (and as such factually) wrong. This aspect can't be refuted, as there's plenty of white papers that has been provided time and time again. No, I take that as an insult with a contradictory sentence. That's like someone wishing you dead then saying "God Bless". Age has nothing to do with wisdom nor intelligence. People would like to think these always correlate, but alas as shown by many it does not.

I am sorry that we're unable to communicate. All the best to you.