The Hi-Fi + Hi-Res Audiophiles' Bluetooth Headphone Adapter Thread - [17.Oct.21] iFi GO Blu impression added
Dec 5, 2019 at 1:30 AM Post #286 of 1,316
ClieOS, I am interested if you prefer some settings in the ES100 app? I can hear some difference when changing the roll off settings. I turned off all the digital enhancements like Jitter Detection and DCT.
 
Dec 5, 2019 at 3:47 AM Post #287 of 1,316
I’m with you on the Q5S and xDSD. I’ve never heard the Fiio but have briefly tried the xDSD, and it went as it always does whenever I audition iFi’s products - on paper they’re perfect and I’m terribly excited, but in person I find them clangy, non-musical, and fussy to use. That’s just me though and technically they’re up there, definitely worth the price. But if that format was okay I would rather get a DAP that also receives LDAC.

Regarding Sony, @ClieOS ‘s insight is enlightening; I find it crazy that their new Android DAPs are the only ones in that throng of competitors to NOT work as USB DACs, which all of these tiny dongles do!
Edit: their WM line of DAPs have been updated with the BT receiver function I believe.

Well, my personal experience is, since I bought the XDSD, I did not use my DAP anymore (and finally sold it). The big advantage of a bluetooth device compared to a DAP is, that you can permanently keep it in your pocket and flexibly connect it to all different types of devices that you use. For example, if I am on the train, I connect it to my phone (which has a smoother UI than almost any DAP), when I work to my computer (and can browse through my music on a big screen) and in the evening I can watch a movie with it on my TV. You cannot do this with most DAPs unless it has bluetooth receiver mode. The Fiio M11 has, but is way bigger and bulkier than the XDSD. And once you got used to BT streaming from any device, you don`t need the stand allone DAP feature anymore.
Me, personally, I feel something like the XDSD is a great solution. SQ is very close to DAPs and a bit better than dongles like ES100. But still it`s smaller than most DAPs and does not need an extra screen/UI.
 
Dec 5, 2019 at 5:00 AM Post #288 of 1,316
ClieOS, I am interested if you prefer some settings in the ES100 app? I can hear some difference when changing the roll off settings. I turned off all the digital enhancements like Jitter Detection and DCT.

Current setting: 1x voltage 2.5mm output, HD Jitter Cleaner on, no EQ, no crossfeed, DCT 5, Short Delay Slow Roll-off, 4x over-sampling.
 
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Dec 5, 2019 at 2:00 PM Post #289 of 1,316
I’m going to do just that in a few months’ time, letting my precious V30 go and get one of those new jack-less phones (or might as well be jack-less given how lackluster they sound when they maintain the legacy jack).
The V30 is easily at the level of current $300 Pioneer or Fiio DAPs.
I also have an ES100, the format is invaluable in the summer. I tend to reach for my V30, for better dynamics and resolution. But that’s also down to the ES100’s softer tuning.

The newest generation of BT receivers (Qudelix 5K, Fiio BTR5, Shanling up4...) boast similar specs to the newest generation of entry-level DAPs, or the previous generation of mid-level DAPs. AptX HD or LDAC transmission means you are not losing out on anything meaningful if you stream up to CD quality, as you can see from the curves here. I was going to get a DAP and use it as BT receiver but I don’t think I’ll bother, as SQ now reaches neck-and-neck.

I’ll ping the excellent @holsen here as he had interesting things to write on the subject on the Shanling up thread.
Merci @monsieurfromag3 I dont have the BTR5 or the new UP4 but I've got an AK120, Shanling M5s, UP2 and BTR3. Here's the thing. The minute you go Bluetooth, by its very nature, your going to get compression and theoretical degradation of SQ, but here's the other the thing: do you actually hear the difference?

Ive got several high end IEMS with several more on the way (3 new IEMS just got shipped i the last 24 hours :grin:) and I love each of my IEMS with the Bluetooth Receivers. I like the BTR3 but I LOVE the UP2. It's clean, detailed, pitch black and where the BTR3 sounds a bit congested, the UP2 is far more open and spacious. I'm sure some people will throw rocks or shoot arrows for what I'm about to say but for the pure convenience of it and the resultant SQ that comes with 990 Bitrate of LDAC, provided you've got good IEMS that you're happy with and a device that can broadcast LDAC, I'd put a (good) BT receiver against an entry level or even a lower mid tier DAP any day of the week. You get incredible battery life, unparalleled wireless freedom, your choice of earbus or cans and stellar SQ. I think I'd never buy TWS earphones. I'd take a BT receiver handsdown over wireless earbuds too. Now dont get me wrong. I still prefer a wired connection in many environments. In an airplane, plugged into my car audio system or just casual listening but because of the convenience and for I what I perceive to be a very limited compromise, I actually find myself going wireless more oft than not as of late.

Hope this is helpful in someway. Funny enough, I just posted this ovr on the IMR RAH thread an hour ago: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/imr-rah-discussion-impressions-thread.914601/page-19#post-15345709
 
Dec 7, 2019 at 7:51 AM Post #290 of 1,316
Merci @monsieurfromag3 I dont have the BTR5 or the new UP4 but I've got an AK120, Shanling M5s, UP2 and BTR3. Here's the thing. The minute you go Bluetooth, by its very nature, your going to get compression and theoretical degradation of SQ, but here's the other the thing: do you actually hear the difference?

Ive got several high end IEMS with several more on the way (3 new IEMS just got shipped i the last 24 hours :grin:) and I love each of my IEMS with the Bluetooth Receivers. I like the BTR3 but I LOVE the UP2. It's clean, detailed, pitch black and where the BTR3 sounds a bit congested, the UP2 is far more open and spacious. I'm sure some people will throw rocks or shoot arrows for what I'm about to say but for the pure convenience of it and the resultant SQ that comes with 990 Bitrate of LDAC, provided you've got good IEMS that you're happy with and a device that can broadcast LDAC, I'd put a (good) BT receiver against an entry level or even a lower mid tier DAP any day of the week. You get incredible battery life, unparalleled wireless freedom, your choice of earbus or cans and stellar SQ. I think I'd never buy TWS earphones. I'd take a BT receiver handsdown over wireless earbuds too. Now dont get me wrong. I still prefer a wired connection in many environments. In an airplane, plugged into my car audio system or just casual listening but because of the convenience and for I what I perceive to be a very limited compromise, I actually find myself going wireless more oft than not as of late.

Hope this is helpful in someway. Funny enough, I just posted this ovr on the IMR RAH thread an hour ago: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/imr-rah-discussion-impressions-thread.914601/page-19#post-15345709
Yes! I saw your post over on the Rah thread and for a second I thought you'd mistakenly replied to my message on the wrong board :grin:

I incline towards the same sentiment, I am a big wireless believer but won’t cut too many corners on SQ, so receivers seem like the best compromise nowadays. Most integrated solutions, like true wireless iems or even full-sized BT cans, still can’t match receivers + great wired gear for the most part. My Aëdle VK-X are an exception, but they’re also broken and the company went under, so... not too many options.
 
Dec 7, 2019 at 6:59 PM Post #291 of 1,316
Just an opinion, but won't DAPs like Shanling M0 and Hidizs AP80 be a better choice over pure bluetooth receivers as they can act like one and are also small enough to clip and use. And when you don't have your smartphone, you can always use them as discrete source. Unfortunately they only support LDAC and no APTX-HD or APTX-LL but maybe future iterations or alternatives with Qualcomm chipsets will.
 
Dec 7, 2019 at 7:33 PM Post #292 of 1,316
Just an opinion, but won't DAPs like Shanling M0 and Hidizs AP80 be a better choice over pure bluetooth receivers as they can act like one and are also small enough to clip and use. And when you don't have your smartphone, you can always use them as discrete source. Unfortunately they only support LDAC and no APTX-HD or APTX-LL but maybe future iterations or alternatives with Qualcomm chipsets will.

Without the ability to take call, Shanling M0 and Hidizs AP80 can, at most, act as a Bluetooth DAC/amp but not a Bluetooth adapter. We are not here to look for small DAC/amp or DAP with Bluetooth receiving capability, but an wireless extension of smartphone that provide better SQ so we can better enjoy our music on-the-go and taking call without having to take out our smartphone every time it rings.
 
Dec 7, 2019 at 8:38 PM Post #293 of 1,316
Without the ability to take call, Shanling M0 and Hidizs AP80 can, at most, act as a Bluetooth DAC/amp but not a Bluetooth adapter. We are not here to look for small DAC/amp or DAP with Bluetooth receiving capability, but an wireless extension of smartphone that provide better SQ so we can better enjoy our music on-the-go and taking call without having to take out our smartphone every time it rings.
Wait, you can take a phone call on your cellphone? Is there an app for that? I thought they were just for texting/WeChat/Line, Snapchat/Instagram, Facebook/Twitter, etc...

:)
 
Dec 7, 2019 at 9:35 PM Post #294 of 1,316
I have been searching for a pair of BT headphones that sounds like my NAD HP-50. I had my mind set on the HP-70s but keep reading that they can sound edgy at times, which hasn't been the case for the HP-50. Then one day I came across an article introducing a BT receiver and later found this thread. This could have been the perfect solution for my need! Converting the HP-50 to wireless! One question I have is, how does these (< $150 ones) generally sound when compared to, say headphones wired to a Sansa Clip+?
I use the es100 with my Nad HP-50 using a short cable with right angle plugs. The es100 clips onto the metal portion of the Nad headband. Works great.
 
Dec 8, 2019 at 2:57 AM Post #295 of 1,316
Without the ability to take call, Shanling M0 and Hidizs AP80 can, at most, act as a Bluetooth DAC/amp but not a Bluetooth adapter. We are not here to look for small DAC/amp or DAP with Bluetooth receiving capability, but an wireless extension of smartphone that provide better SQ so we can better enjoy our music on-the-go and taking call without having to take out our smartphone every time it rings.

I've always been the phone speaker guy, It didn't even occur to me that headphones can be used that way! :ksc75smile:
 
Dec 8, 2019 at 5:50 AM Post #296 of 1,316
Just an opinion, but won't DAPs like Shanling M0 and Hidizs AP80 be a better choice over pure bluetooth receivers as they can act like one and are also small enough to clip and use. And when you don't have your smartphone, you can always use them as discrete source. Unfortunately they only support LDAC and no APTX-HD or APTX-LL but maybe future iterations or alternatives with Qualcomm chipsets will.
I got very excited about the Hidizs AP80 PRO, until I realised that it doesn't support Spotify (or Tidal) offline.
There are several other small DAP's that I got excited about recently, but none of them allow streaming service offline playlists (If you see what I mean).
The new Hiby pro was particularly interesting as it looked like it might work as a completely independent 'high rez' capable DAP that could be remotely controlled by a smartphone via Hiby-link, but as far as I know that can't be used to control Tidal or Spotify, and the DAP doesn't allow offline playlists anyway.

So it looks like something like the BTR5, UP4 or eventually Qudelix will be my best solution.
 
Dec 8, 2019 at 6:39 AM Post #297 of 1,316
I got very excited about the Hidizs AP80 PRO, until I realised that it doesn't support Spotify (or Tidal) offline.
There are several other small DAP's that I got excited about recently, but none of them allow streaming service offline playlists (If you see what I mean).
The new Hiby pro was particularly interesting as it looked like it might work as a completely independent 'high rez' capable DAP that could be remotely controlled by a smartphone via Hiby-link, but as far as I know that can't be used to control Tidal or Spotify, and the DAP doesn't allow offline playlists anyway.

So it looks like something like the BTR5, UP4 or eventually Qudelix will be my best solution.
Doesn’t Hiby Link just transmit whatever is playing on your phone to these DAPs though? So you’d just control all of the playback from your phone, including streaming apps?
 
Dec 8, 2019 at 7:30 PM Post #298 of 1,316
Doesn’t Hiby Link just transmit whatever is playing on your phone to these DAPs though? So you’d just control all of the playback from your phone, including streaming apps?
I could easily be wrong, but I thought Hibylink just offered control of a remote device, rather than actual transmission of audio data like Bluetooth.
This means that whatever device you have your 'phones plugged into has to support whatever music files you want to listen to (I'm not even certain Hibylink can be used with any other playing software than Hiby Music).

Can anyone here clarify?

'cos if Hibylink can be used to transmit Spotify or Tidal stuff from my phone then I'll definitely be rethinking and taking another look at Hiby players!
 
Dec 8, 2019 at 7:36 PM Post #299 of 1,316
I could easily be wrong, but I thought Hibylink just offered control of a remote device, rather than actual transmission of audio data like Bluetooth.
This means that whatever device you have your 'phones plugged into has to support whatever music files you want to listen to (I'm not even certain Hibylink can be used with any other playing software than Hiby Music).

Can anyone here clarify?

'cos if Hibylink can be used to transmit Spotify or Tidal stuff from my phone then I'll definitely be rethinking and taking another look at Hiby players!
I want to know this too!
 
Dec 8, 2019 at 8:06 PM Post #300 of 1,316
Doesn’t Hiby Link just transmit whatever is playing on your phone to these DAPs though? So you’d just control all of the playback from your phone, including streaming apps?
I could easily be wrong, but I thought Hibylink just offered control of a remote device, rather than actual transmission of audio data like Bluetooth.
This means that whatever device you have your 'phones plugged into has to support whatever music files you want to listen to (I'm not even certain Hibylink can be used with any other playing software than Hiby Music).

Can anyone here clarify?

'cos if Hibylink can be used to transmit Spotify or Tidal stuff from my phone then I'll definitely be rethinking and taking another look at Hiby players!

Dunno how Hiby Link works on Hiby DAPs, but it mere offers very limited control for W5, more like just displaying status for codec and such. On older version, I used to be able to force my W5 into different codec, i.e. UAT (that means Spotify can stream in UAT), but that was removed from later update. Now to use UAT, I have to use Hiby music app.. All and all, the app itself is fairly pointless to me.
 
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