[pendles]

[the wild card is grado rs-1, the signature/presentation is so different from anything else that it's just really fun to listen to./QUOTE]

Yeah, I understand. In fact that would be another post of interest, "What headphone is your biggest wildcard?"

When I posted the description "Fantastical" it was in refernce to my re-modded PF-1... I had to make up a word to best descibe its signature and my most consistent response of awe to it. No other speaker or headphone (I have heard) responds like it. The only other owner of the woodied PS-1 has the same response (see PF-1 under headphone sales/interest checks). As wild as a few of my mods are, the re-modded PF-1 (now "Ponywoo") is my wild card listening device... every single time...

In Speakers VS Headphones, the PF-1 might never be duplicated...

 

[pendles]

Quote:

As you can see from my volume of posts (3) I am new to Head-fi. And as much as I have been reading all the forums this is the first time I have seen this theme for a post. I would like to point out that not everyone who reads the forum has seen every topic, and may be interested in something they never thought of. Thank you for posting, remember there is no such thing as dumb questions just ignorant answers ( I was taught never to use the same word twice a sentence so I use ignorant in place of dumb).

Welcome to the fi Bikeboy999! Like yourself, not all head-fiers are rude ruffian brutes. Sometimes we have to defend our right to discuss topics others feel that there is only one right answer to; the answer they already read or wrote, of course... The trick to head-fi, headphones and speakers is that Nothing is quite that simple. To be told that we should shut up and not enjoy our audiophile journey seems to be the forte of too many oft-brilliant, oft-unthiking audio-grinches. Funny how they often have posted so many times themseves, no?

The choice to post about such a common consideration was due to my interest exceeding my fear of these folk with such obvious faults that a three post newbie can detect it...

 

[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiWire /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes. I'm pretty sure that my current system beats most $20,000 systems, and possibly better. You don't get the visceral bass impact in your body or as much of a soundstage, but otherwise it's aural bliss. You have to spend a lot on a speaker system to reduce your compromises, and there is always the room (acoustics) to consider.

Yeah, maybe most $20k systems, but it's easy to put a really good system together for $10 to $12k. Use Chinese amps and you could cut that in half. Still, that'd be five-times a HP rig.

Dave

 

[IEMaddict]

As much as I love headphones, I would have to choose speakers. The thing that I love about speakers is that speakers image so much better than headphones. With a good pair of speakers, it feels like the musicians are sometimes playing right infront of you in the room.

 

[mthrsuperior]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pendles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Checking your posts, we found no enlightenment or treasure of humor. Checking this post, none either. So you don't use speakers or headphones, and if you do, you have no opinion about them, and if you do, you don't know how to post your opinion... Well, go use that cable now!

ROFL
I soooo deserved that

 

[mthrsuperior]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiWire /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes. I'm pretty sure that my current system beats most $20,000 systems, and possibly better. You don't get the visceral bass impact in your body or as much of a soundstage, but otherwise it's aural bliss. You have to spend a lot on a speaker system to reduce your compromises, and there is always the room (acoustics) to consider.

Has anyone here tried the "bone conduction" headphones?
AudioCubes.com - TEAC HP-F100 Filltune HiFi Bone Conducting Headphones
I'm curious how, if at all, they recreate the physical effect of bass.

 

[visualguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IEMaddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif As much as I love headphones, I would have to choose speakers. The thing that I love about speakers is that speakers image so much better than headphones. With a good pair of speakers, it feels like the musicians are sometimes playing right infront of you in the room.

Yes, better imaging, but also more impact and a more natural sound with speakers. Another issue is that having something on your head/ears gets annoying and uncomfortable pretty quickly. That's a pretty big one for me.

 

[visualguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiWire /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm pretty sure that my current system beats most $20,000 systems, and possibly better. You don't get the visceral bass impact in your body or as much of a soundstage, but otherwise it's aural bliss. You have to spend a lot on a speaker system to reduce your compromises, and there is always the room (acoustics) to consider.

"as much of a soundstage" is putting it way too mildly... With headphones, the sound comes from inside or just outside of your head, which always sounds unnatural. Also, headphones are ultimately uncomfortable.

By the way, you don't need to spend $20K on your speaker system. My speaker system, for example, is only $12K for the speakers+amp, and it beats my Stax Omega 2+KGSS headphone setup which is considered to be one of the best. My headphone setup equals my speaker setup on some fronts (such as detail), and it is inferior on others (such as soundstage, bass, and impact), but I can't think of a single area where my headphone setup is better than my speaker setup.

Don't get me wrong - I still love my headphone setup, and I listen to it when I don't want to disturb others (or when I happen to be in the mood for hearing the music coming from inside my head...), but it's definitely inferior and not equal to or better than the speakers.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arielexc /img/forum/go_quote.gif "as much of a soundstage" is putting it way too mildly... With headphones, the sound comes from inside or just outside of your head, which always sounds unnatural. Also, headphones are ultimately uncomfortable. By the way, you don't need to spend $20K on your speaker system. My speaker system, for example, is only $12K for the speakers+amp, and it beats my Stax Omega 2+KGSS headphone setup which is considered to be one of the best. My headphone setup equals my speaker setup on some fronts (such as detail), and it is inferior on others (such as soundstage, bass, and impact), but I can't think of a single area where my headphone setup is better than my speaker setup. Don't get me wrong - I still love my headphone setup, and I listen to it when I don't want to disturb others (or when I happen to be in the mood for hearing the music coming from inside my head...), but it's definitely inferior and not equal to or better than the speakers.

$12k is not too far from $20k...I can spend $1000-$3000 on a great headphone rig that will probably be more enjoyable(as an audiophile) than most speakers systems that cost twice as much.

I for one love speaker and headphone setups as they satisfy different needs.

 

[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...I can spend $1000-$3000 on a great headphone rig that will probably be more enjoyable(as an audiophile) than most speakers systems that cost twice as much. I for one love speaker and headphone setups as they satisfy different needs.

I doubt that it would be more enjoyable than my $3500 Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grands. Now, you would need to spend another $1000 for acceptable speaker amplification and I DID spend several times that amount but there's little difference in cost from your proposal.

What are the components of this $3000 headphone rig? Just for the record, my headphone rig is a Woo Audio WA6 driving AKG K701s. The sources are the same for speakers and headphones.

Dave

 

[TheAzhrei]

Back in '99 I got to hear a headphone system with the Sennheiser Orpheus 'phones/amp. I thought I was in heaven. I hadn't been long with headphones, but I got a new respect for what they could sound like at the very top end.

The next day, I got to hear a system fronted by the Martin Logan Statements, Evolution 2 speakers. I remember thinking, "Oh, I didn't know my CD's could sound like this."

The speaker system easily cost about 20 times as much as the headphone one, and the Statements probably wouldn't fit in my apartment if it was three times it's size and I had no neighbors. I would give either leg for either setup, but I could probably be talked out of both for the speakers if you threw in six VTL Wotans and a nice country home.

Since that weekend I have listened to many rigs of lower fi. I still have to say that I prefer speakers for their sound. Impact, imaging and soundstage is just better with a nice set of speakers. But, I live for headphone listening, and I would defend my various rigs very bitterly. No one has ever knocked on my door to ask me to turn down my headphones, and I have yet to find a headphone rig that won't fit in my listening room or office.

 

[visualguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif $12k is not too far from $20k...I can spend $1000-$3000 on a great headphone rig that will probably be more enjoyable(as an audiophile) than most speakers systems that cost twice as much.

Well, $12K is about as close to $20K as it is to $3K...

By the way, for $6K you can buy a pair of Dali Helicon 400 speakers and a decent integrated amp to drive them. This speaker setup will beat any headphone setup that I can think of, including my O2+KGSS which is over $3K.

 

[dmk005]

Speakers are engineered to utilize many more physical properties to their benefit. An obvious example is that subs use air movement to create depth and tones one cannot hear but can certainly feel. This results in a massive sound stage that can only compete with live productions.

The only reason I found the need for headphones and related components is to attempt to recreate as close as possible this same sensation in the privacy of my office without disturbing those around me. Many thousand $$$ later, I have yet to accomplish this quest but have learned to love 2 channel music with as much zeal as I used to love 5/7 and now 9 discreet channel movies. Now passing a collection plate....

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcstep /img/forum/go_quote.gif I doubt that it would be more enjoyable than my $3500 Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grands. Now, you would need to spend another $1000 for acceptable speaker amplification and I DID spend several times that amount but there's little difference in cost from your proposal.

Pair of Baby Grands - $3500
Acceptable Amp- $1000
Acceptable Source- $500-1000

Pair of mid-fi phones(hd650, k701, rs-1)- $350-$500
Acceptable Amp- $500-$750
Acceptable Source $500-$1000

These are both modest setups for headphones and speakers. Although this is hypothetical, you can still see that the difference in the price of speakers and speaker amplification is more significant. "Acceptable" headphones and headphone amps are cheaper than "acceptable" speakers and speaker amps.

Even then, I can go lower with a $1000 headphone rig that will reveal more than plenty a $1000 speaker rig. AKG k701, Gilmore Light, emu1212m.

 

[pendles]

Quote:

Pair of Baby Grands - $3500 Acceptable Amp- $1000 Acceptable Source- $500-1000 Pair of mid-fi phones(hd650, k701, rs-1)- $350-$500 Acceptable Amp- $500-$750 Acceptable Source $500-$1000

In this hypothetical, however tight or lose the accuracy in dollars, an actual figure example is being applied to a complicated question involving the challenge between speakers and headphones.

Even in the unfigured criteria--cables and connects (speaker folk know that the sky is the limit), headphones, in of themselves, contain that cost as well (unless you own a headphone with no conductors or made a mod for swapping cables at the housings).

So, in the above example, there may easily be seen a disparity (for argument's sake) in dollars of at least or up to $2000 in favor of a headphone set up. It is not too far to factor in the added speaker cables cost, since the price is included with the purchase of the headphone (cable comes with it). So now the speaker verses headphone challenge, in this example, might reveal itself in a $2500 savings for the headphone crowd.

Would you rather stick with the given speaker set up, or stay with the headphone set up and invest the $2500, take a vacation, buy a few more headphones--or that dream headphone to add to your set up?

Is this a fair question? Do speakers really give you so much more in value as to laugh at the dollar difference? As was before stated early in the posting --"it comes down to preference"... Isn't that a bit simple in light of the dollar value? My preference-values, when faced with a $2500 decision can sure be put to the test...

Still. Give me $6,000. I can only spend it on audio gear, and I am starting from scratch with all I now know... Do I lust for a speaker set up or a phenomenal headphone collection with amp? What do I put in my "cart".

I, for one, would be a little taken aback thinking that it would be a long time before I could again afford either the speaker set up or the headphone set up again (since I would be without one or the other in this scenerio), although the $6000 opportunity would belay the disappointment for some time, ha.

But once owning a good speaker set up, it is easier to put together a headphone set up as you go? No?

Then again. Does the wife factor spoil the entire argument?