[shredder]

If you decide to buy them, Sennheiser did their homework correctly and they priced them aggressively enough to earn your business while earning a (probably) hefty profit. Unfortunately, there is a price on premium. The HD800 are the premium.

Pioneer recently demonstrated the premium factor still works with the BDP-51 and BDP-05. Essentially the same unit with minor cosmetic changes / warranty change and a $300 premium price for the "Elite" tag. Worked.

 

[baka1969]

I have little to add to what Uncle Erik has already stated. I will say that I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the $999 price point. It's a huge psychological price. It keeps it under the $1000 barrier and still keeps it among the top-tier pricing. PLUS I wouldn't be so quick to praise the economists of Senn (or any other company for that matter). Some of the largest companies in the world are going bankrupt. Senn is not immune nor are they any better at market prognostication. And one major miscalculation can cripple a company. I'm not predicting any company failure, but Senn missed the mark with the $1400 while leaving a large pricing gap. Grado has their pricing laddered properly up their product line. Leaving a natural progression from the iGrado to the PS-1000. Just my nickel's worth of babble.

 

[Skorpitarius]

all I can say is i'll wait patiently until used pairs start showing up for sale in a couple years or so , then i'll get 'em ... I ain't payin' no $1400 for what is worth a tiny fraction of that in actuality ... (rather go see live music performances for all that money ! )
yeah, i'm bitter that I can't afford em but still .......

 

[auris]

Quote:

Last time I checked the "great depression 2" was off the table......I have followed this "economy" for quite some time and frankly it has been driven down far too much by short selling on wall street and media propoganda.....everyone loves bad news..... negativity sells....thats the bottom line. In a way we are getting what we deserve but lets not get crazy with 25% unemployment predictions.....

Not to be argumentative, but we probably will just have to agree that we disagree on "Great Depression 2" as you phrase it. I have also paid attention to the economy for many years.

Here are some fairly current unemployment figures reported the way they were measured in the 1980s, before the government decided to change the way they measure unemployment so as to make their official numbers look better:

Inflation, Money Supply, GDP, Unemployment and the Dollar - Alternate Data Series

Inasmuch as this thread is supposed to be devoted to thoughts about the pricing of the HD 800, I won't go any further with economic predictions.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by baka1969 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have little to add to what Uncle Erik has already stated. I will say that I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the $999 price point. It's a huge psychological price. It keeps it under the $1000 barrier and still keeps it among the top-tier pricing.

It *is* at the 999 price point - but Sennheiser are a German company and it's 999 €uros.

A couple of years ago, that would have been about $950 - but today the €uro is strong.......

 

[ting.mike]

I can say that we've pretty much covered about all aspects of the HD800 pricing.
Can we conclude this now?

If you want one and can afford one, then by all means get one.
If you want one and can't afford one, then wait.
If you don't want one though you can afford one, then good for your wallet!

-edit-
I think we should now make another thread questioning PS1000's pricing.

As one poster said it earlier: Slap some aluminum to the GS1000, and raise the price $700? As much as I love Grados and the GS1000, the PS1000 just doesn't make any sense.

 

[mbd2884]

Quote:

Originally Posted by baka1969 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not predicting any company failure, but Senn missed the mark with the $1400 while leaving a large pricing gap. Grado has their pricing laddered properly up their product line. Leaving a natural progression from the iGrado to the PS-1000. Just my nickel's worth of babble.

Great point. It's a bit weird for Sennheiser to have their "Flagship" selling around $350 currently and then the successor to be $1000 more. Of the companies that have headphones over or close to $1000 they do have a laddered pricing of their products. Hopefully this means Sennheiser intends to fill in the gap between $400 and $1,400 soon.

 

[tekki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif In this case, you are wrong. It did cost Sennheiser a lot to make these headphones because of the millions they poured into R&D. These are not just a new and improved take on an old design (i.e. HD600 to the HD650). They feature new driver technology that has never been used before, as well as a driver angled at 45 degrees, which I don't believe any headphone manufacturer has ever done (to that extent), high-density Leona plastic to dampen vibration, and a completely new type of cable connector. There are a lot of "firsts" in the HD800 and this is why they cost the big bucks. Why the Grado PS1000 cost $1700 I have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

you are correct, however at most times this high R&D cost is already included into their final price. its not to say that hey its not worth it, but the market for high end performance based anything is such. small target market, high profit margins. it IS a must to have high profit margins or else they wont have enough profit to cover R&D.

my argument is that the HD800 is justified to be at that price, because its new, its a flagship and its in the market where people are rich.

its all in marketing theory actually, one just needss to pick up a marketing textbook

 

[ting.mike]

you guys are REALLY into this pricing talk!

 

[TheMuffinMan_01]

in a heartbeat i would spend 600 or so dollars on the hd800's but with the current price it will really really be a stretch.

 

[K3cT]

$599 PS3 anyone?

This very situation is the same old story again.

 

[tamahome77]

There are some places where you can buy it below MSRP. I think a few months back when the US dollar was strong, a dealer offered to sell me a pair for $1250USD. Right now because of the stronger Canadian currency, it's about on par on with US MSRP at $1400USD.

 

[The Monkey]

Just a few random thoughts. The notion that Senn "missed the mark" with respect to pricing is confusing to me. Thus far, it would appear that the price is very much on the money (excuse the pun). The runs are selling out. What more proof do you need that the price is right?

Will it continue to sell at 1400? Maybe yes, maybe no, but I think it will because people are trading down in response to the economy. This means that Joe Speakerlover, who would never be satisfied with a $1,400 speaker rig, might now dip his toe in the headphone waters for a $1,400 headphone. To a speaker lover, $1,400 for state of the art is nothing. Some of the hifi mags have been alluding to this development in their reviews.

And to headphone lovers, while trading down also applies, the $1,400 price point for headphones is obviously alive and well. Witness sales of the various Stax models on the used market. In fact, I think the used Stax prices are most informative when looking at Senn's $1,400 figure. That's almost exactly what it costs to buy a mint 007 mk1. And if you think that Senn is not targeting Stax users, I would suggest that you are mistaken.

Finally, if you find the price to be outrageous and you would never spend x on a headphone, then you are not the target market. For some reason, people get offended by this, which I don't understand. Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

 

[mbd2884]

And yet Stax had to close their doors late 90s. And I wonder how well the new Stax who were given rights to manufacture headphones is doing.

I don't think the people are offended. Just trying to understand why the price was set at $1,400. I believe in this economy, more than ever, consumers are trying to understand why they are being asked to pay high prices. If the HD800 costs $800 each to manufacture then I can understand. Even add in the R&D.

But also, I think for many of us, we just think it could be the best for both Sennheiser and the general consumers. Like people said already, they would be willing to jump on the HD800 at the $600, but $1,400 is pushing it. It's hard to justify paying that price. And I think for many of us it's not about whether we can afford it, it's just we would never spend that much on a pair of headphones.

And the example with the Stax sales, I don't think is very good. There really doesn't seem to be much of a market for Electrostatic headphones in general. None of the electrostatic headphones made decades ago survived, the companies either went bankrupt or they stopped manufacturing them because they couldn't make it profitable. The few people who buy them off Ebay, Audiogon and other audio sales, it doesn't seem to me a massive market. I don't think any manufacturer seeing that would be like, OMG it's a gold mine, let's get in on the action.

The only reason Sennheiser is able to put out a headphone at $1,400 to me is because if it's not the massive financial success they hope to be, they still have the HD600, HD650, HD595, PX100, PX200, IEM, microphones and other successful products to keep them financial strong. That's my guess. It's a gamble they can risk.

 

[Landis]

Sennheiser does have a fairly large markup on their products, as almost all audio companies do!

I can tell you from experience in working at an electronic store, speakers and subwoofers had anywhere from a 50% and up markup in price. All Sennheiser and Shure products we currently carry have a huge markup; for example, we retail the E530s for about $600... Cost is around $250 CAD if I remember correctly. We still carry the HD555s and we retail it for something close to $200 while cost is about $90. We retail the Dr. Dre Monster Beats for about $350 while cost is $170 (Or at least it was until employees started mass purchasing to flip them and the company did a fake cost raise to $270). Manufacturer production cost, I'd assume, is quite some bit less. We used to carry the HD580, 595, 600 and 650, but they were cleared out years ago; would have been nice to score a deal on those at the time!

Sennheiser makes quality products, but luckily for them, the price of parts isn't overwhelming by any means.