[kartik]

Grado headphones usually don't get a lot of exposure here anymore. It's mostly CD3000s, R10s and Omega IIs these days. To make up for the obvious lack of Grado content at headfi, Jpelg, Lan and I decided to have a small minimeet to try out some interesting headphones. These include HP-2s with RS-1 drivers, SR-60s with HP-2 drivers and an adaptor that resembled a Light sabre.

Thanks to Jimmy and Lan for braving the long and dangerous trek to the heart of Da Bronx. We started out by hearing some vinyl from the Scout-PH1 including Pink Floyd's DSOTM and Dido's No ANgel on the regular speakers. We them moved to the heaphones, particularly Jpelg's stock RS-1s and the modded HP-2s on my tube amp. Of the two, I found the RS-1s much richer sounding although the HP-2s seem to have much more control. We also tried the ongoing work in progress-Frankengrado headphones. These are an interesting beast. They consist of the chamber of the SR-60 mated to Jimmy's old HP-2 drivers, with an RCA termination. The termination is a very different story. This pair of cans was characterised by a much more recessed presentation. While it seemed to get the voices right, It didn't seem to be ready for the big time in other departments. Overall, the presentation was very un-Grado like. Jimmy's theory is that Lan is slowly being turned to the dark side by unknown influences and will soon be down with Sony-heiseritis. Listening to music through the Frakengrados makes the listener feel that he/she is at the back of a very large auditorium unlike the usual stagehand position that the non-Franken grados have.
This meet also focussed on the possible advantages of vinyl over SACD or reddbook in terms of soundstage, air and musicality. Whether the on the DSOTM LP or the Aretha Franklin and Marvin Gaye LPs, Vinyl had a clearly cleaner presentation with much stronger and deeper bass than either of the other two formats. ALthough we didn't formally compare the redbook to vinyl for Metallica's S&M album, purely based on memory, Lan felt that the vinyl was as badly mastered as the redbook but seemed far more listenable and real than the cacophonious CD.
Lan also tried some of his extremely short and thick power cables which seemed to make the sonic picture a tad less grainy and added sparkle to the presentation as compared to my stock cables.

Overall, it was great fun getting together and really spending some time listening to music and chatting. Thanks to Jimmy and Lan for coming.

P.S. : Pictures of Frankengado and the Adapted Monster will appear tomorrow.

 

[psxguy85]

I'm very interested to see what these looked like.

 

[jpelg]

Kartik, lan, and I had a fairly impromptu mini-meet on very short notice, and I am glad we did. This meet originally had somewhat of a primary agenda - vinyl. But I think that changed a bit, and evolved as the day went on, which turned more into an audio day with friends. Those looking for scientifically-based A-B's should definitely look elsewhere, and I qualify any opinions I write as just that - mine.

I arrived in "da Bronx" (a far nicer area than most would imagine from most media portrayals, btw), and was very well-received by Kartik's lovely wife, who was a most gracious host to a few crazy headphone enthusiasts. Thank you so much for your hospitality.

Equipment-wise, we had a limited scope, which enabled us to focus on certain things. For sources, we had:

1.Sharp DX-SX1 SACD player feeding it's digital output (yes, SACD!) to a matching Sharp SM-SX1 upsampling DAC/Digital amplifier.

2. VPI Scout TT w/JMW-9 & Grado Platinum-PH-1 phono stage feeding to both a Philly Audio tube Pre/headphone amp, as well as the aforementioned Sharp amp's analog inputs.

This allowed enough of combinations & permutations to prove quite interesting, yet still keep things more focused than usual large meets. The SM-SX-1 amplifier has a headphone-out, but it is 1/8", and a quick audition made it apparent that it's quality was not up to our other setups for the day, but that was somewhat rectified by use of the "Super-mega adapter" we constructed for just such use (more on that later

).

The real interesting aspect of the Sharp/Sharp setup (other than the technical aspects of SACD digital feed, etc.) was the use of a Headphile-made cable that connects banana speaker output jacks to 1/4" headphone plugs. This cable is even more interesting in that it has both copper and silver cabling, as well as two headphone jacks, allowing comparisons and sound adjustments according to one's taste and the headphones in use.

I had heard this cable (on the same Sharp ssytem) at the last Grado meet. After being very impressed then, I was happy to try this again today. This combo seems to work very well with Grado headphones, giving them just what they need to shine, imo. Kartik has had this cable for a few months now, and his well-done, full review can be found here, which I encourage you to read. I heard none of the hiss that Kartik wrote of in his review, and only heard some quite excellent sound. Xanadu777 no longer has this cable listed on his website, but I understand it can be produced upon request. If you've got a decent amp/integrated, this is a worthy consideration, imo. If interested, contact Larry to discuss the possibilities.

Headphone-wise, we found ourselves quite Grado-centric today. These included a pair of stock SR325's, stock RS-1's, HP-2's w/RS-1 drivers, and a pair of "Franken-Grado's" which consisted of HP-2 drivers inside SR60 enclosures. We also had plenty of bowl & flat pads to go around, and switch up. Long story short - RS-1's trounce the lower-end Grado's, no matter which enclosure they are in. I still find it incredible how much difference the pads can make to the sound on any Grado. On the SR325's, flat's make them much more palatable. But in the process they seem to lose something. Compared to the RS-1's which have all that is good about Grado, with a very sweet midrange, provide enough "punch" to satisfy without ever getting harsh or grating. If anything can be said against the RS-1's is that, when driven by the wrong amp, their low-end can get out of control. Luckily this was not the case with the Sharp amp/Headphile cable combo, which kept everything in check, while still allowing the RS-1's rich signature to come thru. The hybrid HP-2/RS-1 phone has traits of both models - a slightly more upfront presentation than stock HP-2's, w/more bass control than stock RS-1's. In my use of this headphone, I would never describe them as "syrupy", as I would the RS-1's on occasion. Conclusion (mine!): enclosure size & material matter (duh!). These are sonically tighter than & not as deep in bass as the PS-1's, and people finding those too much, might find these hybrids very pleasant. Again pads matter a lot too. Bowls = more open high's, less bass, and a bit of soundstage. Flats = deeper bass, slightly rolled-off highs, less soundstage. Hopefully more people can get a chance to hear these in the future.

lan's "Franken-Grado's" were a whole 'nother animal. Using RCA cables going to each driver respectively, down to an RCA->1/8" adapter, and then to a 1/8"->1/4" adapter is not the most audiophile of devices, of course. Further add-on's to this adapter included a 1/4"->1/8" adapter extension that allowed plugging into the Sharp amp's recessed headphone jack. Going even one (unnecessary) step further was adding another 1/8"->1/4" adapter to plug it into the Headphile cable. Soundwise, these have a rather strange distant quality that is definitely NOT Grado-like at all. More experimentation with the cabling, and the chamber enclosures (maybe some woodie's from Larry?) is definitely in order. I understand that pics are forthcoming for those that wish to see the "carnage", and antipate having our Head-Fi memberships revoked, or at least temporarily banned for our blasphemous practice

.

Vinyl. Ahh, yes, vinyl. Other than a listen to John Grado's setup nearly two years ago, I had not really listened to a vinyl LP in many, many years. I have to admit that physically, the Scout is a beautiful piece of machinery, and just plain looks cool. I'd get one on looks alone. Almost sexy. We listened to a few LP's including Pink Floyd, Marvin Gaye, Ella Fitzgerald, and Dido (I did not hear the Metallica LP). Dido was of interest to me because I know the redbook CD well, and had just heard her in concert last weekend. The LP seems to be a good pressing, and the overall presentation is more relaxed than the CD. As with most of the vinyl I heard, there is no "digititus", ever. There also seems to be a very nice palatable "texture that is consistent amongst the recordings we heard. I can't be sure it this has to do with the media itself, or to the techniques used farther upstream in the recording process. I will say that Ella was made for vinyl. Ultimately though, the occasional "pop" or "crackle", while admittedly far less prominent than I ever heard on my old setups, still would take me out of my listening euphoria with nigthmarish recollections of the "old days". Even if I could get past the cost, storage, and setup obstacles, I don't think I'll ever go there again. But you never know

. I do have a much better appreciation of the media, and understand why there are those that go there gladly, even today in this digital age.

Beyond all that, I found that recordings themselves can influence one's impressions of equipment as much as, if not more than anything in the equipment chain. There are good & not-so-good LP's, CD's, and SACD's. While some reviewers don't like to discuss what music they use to construct their opinions, it all has a very profound effect on your listening experience, and how equipment is perceived. Then the most subtle of tweaks can change that to suit your needs for the moment, but not necessarily for all recordings. It can be frustrating, but also makes me recognize that our opinions are all valid for the experience we each have, and that tolerance of this is paramount.

I had a completely enjoyable afternoon socializing with some Head-Fi buds, listening to some gear, talking tech-stuff (thanks for all the info, guys. I learn from all of you every time), and hearing some neat music. No ego's. Just good humor all around. Pizza was the icing on the cake. Again, my utmost thanks to Kartik and his wife for hosting us on this day, and to lan for making the subway trek way uptown. We definitely have to do it again soon.

 

[kartik]

Although not a direct comparison but more from memory, the PS-1s and the HP1000s that I heard at the GradoLAbs meet did not sound as neutral as the HP-2s with bowl pads. Maybe it was because of the pads or maybe it was because the RS-1 drivers are different from the PS-1s and the HP-1s. I would be proud to own one of these, but I'm not financially there for the next few months. I can see exactly what Jpelg means with the RS-1s being syrupy at times particularly with the flats.

BTW the RS-1s sound excellent, but I just hate them from the bottom of my heart. Now each time I hear the 325s I know exactly what's wrong with them and why they sound so stressful. The RS-1s have the most coherent sound I've heard from my rig. Not necessarily the most neutral, but definitely incredibly coherent. The SR-325s have a slight dissonance between the drivers which means to a slightly different auditory pictures being created for each ear. This slight difference is not perceptible with regards to the voices but makes the edges much harder to mentally focus rather than a single edge, leave a double edge on all the sounds. This may also account for the harshness and attack that people mistakenly attribute to this headphone.

Between the RS-1 bowl, the HP-2 bowl and RS-1 flats it's hard to pick a favorite. Each one seems to have a slightly different character without any clear superior headphone. It gives a nice set of options to modify your cans to suit you moods.

 

[lan]

yo yo yo! Going back home I fell asleep on the train and missed my transfer stop. Good thing I could do another transfer later on

It's funny traveling through the Bronx. There are some characters on the train like those people selling CDs

I thank kartik and his wife for hosting and feeding us.

Can't really go on without food and energy at these meets.

I usually don't like Grados but the last NYC meet made me appreciate them a bit more. The franken-grado's were my attempt to sort of tweak them out a bit for my personal tastes. They were off base in some areas which I suspected and need some work but it was good I had real Grado's around as a point of reference.

It's amazing how much the pads make a difference for these headphones. None of them could really save the SR325 from being trounced by the RS1s though. I prefer a neutral sound so I enjoyed the HP2(RS1 driver) hybrid more. It does sound like a mix of the real RS1 and HP2. I wonder how much influence the enclosure material has, plastic vs. wood. vs. aluminum(?) in general.

I don't know how good kartik's SACD system really is. I was straining to hear texture in things. On vinyl it was effortless. We didn't hear any redbook on his system but straining to hear these things is just more typical of redbook. So I felt that SACD was closer to CD than vinyl was to SACD. I need to hear more SACD systems before I can draw any semblance of conclusion.

--Lan

 

[kartik]

So when are you getting a vinyl rig. If it is so effortless on my sharp, I wonder what it would sound like with the stealth and the power amp into the K1000s in your system. Maybe you should at least try the bottlehead system. At least you could save a packet on the labor and still have reference level gear, way better than the scout. Hopefully by then the Frakengrados will be ready to rock.

 

[kartik]

On the issue of texture, we could bring Jpelg's DV8400 into the mix and compare both direct SACD, DSD as well as DVD-A to see which is best.

 

[lan]

Well I gotta finish up the numerous projects I have going on before I decide to add anything else. Otherwise nothing would ever get done

There's no lack of detail in my system

The Bix turntable is by diyhifisupply.com in HK. Bottlehead is just a reseller(?). They both have forums as sponsors on audioasylum. There's no labor cost since you have to do it yourself. There's only 2 solder points. The rest is like putting together a toy

It should be really easy to put together.

 

[kartik]

I didn't say that there was a lack of detail. I was just wondering aloud how adding a vinyl rig would sound in your really cool system.

 

[lan]

We're fine artists waiting to be discovered...

BTW, nice photo editing and spelling

 

[kartik]

That's Franken spelling to you!