[bfreedma]

This is due to different noise pollution levels these devices have. Fundamentally noise reduction is what it all comes down to

Please explain how “noise pollution” can impact a digital signal across galvanicaly isolated devices. Measured evidence of change to the bits would be very helpful in assessing this claim - I assume you must have said evidence as a manufacturer proposing this “solution”

As it’s technically impossible for an in spec router/switch/cable to alter packetized data in a manner that provides consistent noise shaping or noise reduction (unless the device is, for some reason, designed to intentionally alter the data), is the claim being made that the file itself remains bit perfect but that some kind of mechanical noise is being transmitted outside of the actual data stream? And that that “noise”, despite passing though several points of isolation is still somehow reaching and impacting the network end point?

Can anyone prove a technical explanation supporting these claims which doesn’t directly conflict with the .802 standards, which clearly work based on the trillions of bits of data that successfully make it though our “noise polluting network infrastructure“ hourly?

 

[TiJo]

iFi Audio being another dishonest company is not that surprising looking at its product claims. You will not get an answer from them I guess.

 

[bluenight]

Great news it’s helping but have you got a switch between your router and streamer? This should maker a far bigger improvement. I’ve yet to hear a system where it doesn't

Yes i have it connected that way.

 

[cpurdy]

I replaced my old router Asus RT-N56U it was released in 2010 and i bought it in 2014. With TP-Link Archer AX50 got a good price on Black Friday. Before i changed router i listened to some songs i got in my reference playlist. Now listening again i definetly here a blacker background and new details and better musicality, i enjoy the music more. Its easy to tell when you here better articulation with vocals and lyrics. I here new words that i dident really grasp what they sang before. So thats very nice.

So routers can make a difference also. It maybe not change the sound but have different black backgrounds and different data flows which unmasks sounds.

The sound is cleaner i here more emotions and expression in vocals the acoustic guitar playing is faster and more articulate note by note finger pick to finger pick. Better seperation.

Great news it’s helping but have you got a switch between your router and streamer? This should maker a far bigger improvement.

This is due to different noise pollution levels these devices have.

There will be absolutely zero difference in any one of these cases. Not "near zero". Not "imperceptible". But actual, cold, heartless, zero.

Digital communication with check-summing and error correction with never have any variance. A $10 ethernet switch with $.99 cables with a vacuum cleaner and hairdryer running on top of it will provide the same audio quality as an 40GBit Mellanox infiniband switch with cabling that costs more than you make in a year.

Zero difference.

Absolute zero.

Now, if your music sounds better to you after you buy a new switch / router / network cable, then you are a lucky person. I will also guarantee that your music will sound better after you send me money. Use this link, and your music will sound better than ever: https://www.habitat.org/donate/?keyword=header-single-gift

 

[Psylocke]

two penneth.. i've tried quite a few budget to highend cables, Supra cat 8, audioquest vodka and tellurium Q black diamond and i've made my own using Viablue silver plated solid-core cable. They all sounded noticeably different from one another when used in my main set up which is a pretty resolving system. On my office Imac with RME DAC and genalec monitors the differences were much harder to pick-up. The TQ cable made by the far the biggest improvement and the improvements were comprehensive across most aspects of the presentation. The supra cable is also a signifcant step up from a standard network cable, but it sounds muddy compared to the TQ and AQ vodka. The biggest areas of improvement i can here is in the mid to top end where definition improves significantly with better cables. There is also a noticeable graininess when you switch back to a lesser cable. But the TQ cable is stupid expensive, so i decided to have crack at making my own, not from scratch (yet) but using Viablue's bulk cable, but not the stranded version they use in their own, instead i went with solid core silver plated copper. I tried to makes of plugs, telegartner which are used in most high end plugs and LinkUP which are very similar diecast construction but which have gold plated contacts. The results have been very impressive, the cable is considerably better than the Supra and i would say on a par with the AQ vodka, which has touch better extension, but its marginal. Its not as good as the TQ cable but it cost me about £40 to make a 1m cable as opposed to £780. I am using a cisco switch which is better than my old TP link, but i am interested to try the SOTM one as soon as my dealer can get one as i'm sure this will have an even bigger influence than the cables. I can strongly recommend the viablue/linkup DIY cable, its easy to make and the performance is outstanding for the money.

Which brand carbon braided sleeve do you use for this? I just bought some Ampcom Cat8 cables which are basically the same as the Linkup cables. I want to add the carbon braided sleeve to them to add that extra quality to the look behind my cabinet next to all my AQ cables. The Cat 8 cable is 8.5mm thick.

 

[teknorob23]

Which brand carbon braided sleeve do you use for this? I just bought some Ampcom Cat8 cables which are basically the same as the Linkup cables. I want to add the carbon braided sleeve to them to add that extra quality to the look behind my cabinet next to all my AQ cables. The Cat 8 cable is 8.5mm thick.

Hi i used this stuff. Its relatively expensive for sleeve but if you buy from audio DIY shop it's 3 x the price, 1/2" should be right for 8.5mm cable. The 1/4" might work to as it does have some stretch. They have a chart somwhere with expansion limit diameters. https://www.hypex.co.uk/Techflex-Sl...eving/Carbon-Fiber/Carbon-Fiber-13mm-0.5.html. I dont actually use this anymore preferring natural fibre sleeving instead, but it does provide a nice finish.

 

[Psylocke]

Hi i used this stuff. Its relatively expensive for sleeve but if you buy from audio DIY shop it's 3 x the price, 1/2" should be right for 8.5mm cable. The 1/4" might work to as it does have some stretch. They have a chart somwhere with expansion limit diameters. https://www.hypex.co.uk/Techflex-Sl...eving/Carbon-Fiber/Carbon-Fiber-13mm-0.5.html. I dont actually use this anymore preferring natural fibre sleeving instead, but it does provide a nice finish.

Which ones are you currently using (natural Fibre Sleeving)?

 

[Claypole]

I can understand how people might want to use high quality 'audiophile grade' ethernet cables and ancillary components (routers, switches, etc) throughout their digital system. If they think it makes a difference to sound quality, and is worth the money, then it's all good.

However, for those that stream music, I presume you'll be using a standard domestic broadband internet connection? Some people have a fibre connection right into the property, whilst a lot of us have fibre to a local cabinet, then copper cabling to the property. Some broadband connections are still copper based, all the way back to the exchange.

Some of that copper cabling is ancient telephone wire, originally designed to do nothing more than support a telephone call. My router plugs into an old telephone connector on the wall, and behind the faceplate is 33 year old telephone wire. This goes about two hundred yards to the exchange over the road, via a couple of very messy looking dilapidated junction boards in my block.

I imagine my copper cabling situation is not untypical (at least in the UK, anyway). It's not Cat 6, or Cat 5. It's not even Cat 3.

If I purchased a high end decent music streaming device, and connected it to my router, what difference would an 'audiophile grade' ethernet cable make over a perfectly decently made but relatively cheaper one?

Any music I stream has come from servers possibly thousands of miles away, and has been through who knows how many routing points, and all sorts of varying grades of cable, yet that last meter of cable in my property can make a difference to how the music sounds?

Does any difference need super high end audio equipment and/or golden ears to discern?

 

[cpurdy]

Any music I stream has come from servers possibly thousands of miles away, and has been through who knows how many routing points, and all sorts of varying grades of cable, yet that last meter of cable in my property can make a difference to how the music sounds?

Does any difference need super high end audio equipment and/or golden ears to discern?

It's digital information, and if any corruption occurs to the data, that corruption is detected (by checksum) and that data is automatically re-sent until it is correctly received. So there is literally not a single bit (pun intended) of difference.

 

[teknorob23]

I can understand how people might want to use high quality 'audiophile grade' ethernet cables and ancillary components (routers, switches, etc) throughout their digital system. If they think it makes a difference to sound quality, and is worth the money, then it's all good.

However, for those that stream music, I presume you'll be using a standard domestic broadband internet connection? Some people have a fibre connection right into the property, whilst a lot of us have fibre to a local cabinet, then copper cabling to the property. Some broadband connections are still copper based, all the way back to the exchange.

Some of that copper cabling is ancient telephone wire, originally designed to do nothing more than support a telephone call. My router plugs into an old telephone connector on the wall, and behind the faceplate is 33 year old telephone wire. This goes about two hundred yards to the exchange over the road, via a couple of very messy looking dilapidated junction boards in my block.

I imagine my copper cabling situation is not untypical (at least in the UK, anyway). It's not Cat 6, or Cat 5. It's not even Cat 3.

If I purchased a high end decent music streaming device, and connected it to my router, what difference would an 'audiophile grade' ethernet cable make over a perfectly decently made but relatively cheaper one?

Any music I stream has come from servers possibly thousands of miles away, and has been through who knows how many routing points, and all sorts of varying grades of cable, yet that last meter of cable in my property can make a difference to how the music sounds?

Does any difference need super high end audio equipment and/or golden ears to discern?

Totally reasonable, but the switch, cables etc are not effecting the data and the ethernet is super efficient. Its the high sensitivity of the streaming device to noise/jitter which is the problem. RFI is picked up from around your house hold transmitted and emitted by noisy generic routers (which are not designed with audio in mind). The ethernet cable effectively acts as an aerial transmits this electrical noise/jitter into the ethernet interface in your streamer.

I know i'm listed as member of trade and therefore as with anyone who makes audio cables i'm doing it to become millionair conning unsuspecting audiophiles, but i'm actually a film maker in ordinary times with passion for making cables in my spare time. When COVID came along and i had time you never normally get in adult life, i got together with other like minded souls frustrated at how streamers didnt sound as good as CD or record players and we've been developing cables and filters which our ears make streaming sound better.

That said my first suggestion if you are skeptical and dont want spend a fortune testing the water, is to by generic switch like the netgear gs108 for about £30, then add a slightly uprated switch power supply like the ifi ipower. The two together will cost your £70 from amazon which you can obviously return if it doesnt help. The run router into this switch and only have your streamer and music server if you have one plugged into it. Run your best streaming cable from the switch to your streamer. In pretty much any system with comprising of a dedicated streamer, dac, amp, speakers and or reasonable headphones, you should hear a considerable improvement in low level detail and dynamics.

Just have a listen and if doesnt work for you, then nothing lost. If it does then look at options for better cables etc

 

[Claypole]

Totally reasonable, but the switch, cables etc are not effecting the data and the ethernet is super efficient. Its the high sensitivity of the streaming device to noise/jitter which is the problem. RFI is picked up from around your house hold transmitted and emitted by noisy generic routers (which are not designed with audio in mind). The ethernet cable effectively acts as an aerial transmits this electrical noise/jitter into the ethernet interface in your streamer.

I know i'm listed as member of trade and therefore as with anyone who makes audio cables i'm doing it to become millionair conning unsuspecting audiophiles, but i'm actually a film maker in ordinary times with passion for making cables in my spare time. When COVID came along and i had time you never normally get in adult life, i got together with other like minded souls frustrated at how streamers didnt sound as good as CD or record players and we've been developing cables and filters which our ears make streaming sound better.

That said my first suggestion if you are skeptical and dont want spend a fortune testing the water, is to by generic switch like the netgear gs108 for about £30, then add a slightly uprated switch power supply like the ifi ipower. The two together will cost your £70 from amazon which you can obviously return if it doesnt help. The run router into this switch and only have your streamer and music server if you have one plugged into it. Run your best streaming cable from the switch to your streamer. In pretty much any system with comprising of a dedicated streamer, dac, amp, speakers and or reasonable headphones, you should hear a considerable improvement in low level detail and dynamics.

Just have a listen and if doesnt work for you, then nothing lost. If it does then look at options for better cables etc

I understand that RFI is going to be the cause of any potential issue here, but if it's enough to affect sound quality, then why aren't optical cables more commonly used?

 

[teknorob23]

I understand that RFI is going to be the cause of any potential issue here, but if it's enough to affect sound quality, then why aren't optical cables more commonly used?

A lot of people use fibre optics, but at some point in the chain it usually has to be converted back to ethernet again. As i say my advice is as to make the most inexpensive tweak, have a listen, if you cant hear difference, theres nothing lost. If you dont mind me asking what is your current system?

 

[Eric M]

So routers can make a difference also. It maybe not change the sound but have different black backgrounds and different data flows which unmasks sounds.

This is pure delusion.

 

[bluenight]

The run router into this switch and only have your streamer and music server if you have one plugged into it

So your saying the more gear you connect to the switch the more noise it will generate to the streamer?

I have mine apple tv 4k and streamer connected to my switch but both are for me the highest priority when it comes to audio. 90% for me is using my HP system with movie/tv series whatching 10% streamer with tidal.

 

[teknorob23]

So your saying the more gear you connect to the switch the more noise it will generate to the streamer?

I have mine apple tv 4k and streamer connected to my switch but both are for me the highest priority when it comes to audio. 90% for me is using my HP system with movie/tv series whatching 10% streamer with tidal.

More that the switch is buffer between the router and the rest of your network, so having it where it is better than going straight into the router, but for the sake of another £30 I would have a 2nd switch in there for everything other than your streamer and one for your streamer. Try it if you can’t hear a difference take it out. I have switch for my sky+, Apple TV and other av, then a separate one for fabless intel nuc/ roon rock music server and my streamer