The DIY'rs Cookbook

Apr 7, 2016 at 3:55 PM Post #331 of 1,974
I must thanks Johnjen and Bimmer. Im playing with sonarworks and my new hd800.
 
Sonarworks indeed tame the brightness, but I may find that at the same time, naturalness and liquidity seem to be bit lost. Ill have to listen for a couple of days as im very new with hd-800 and it may be my prejudice toward DSP that bias my subjective experience.
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 5:56 PM Post #332 of 1,974
@Johnjen, do you use sonarworks in Linear phase or Min setting? 
 
 
I also have Fab filter pro q 2 which is very similar in quality to the Equilibirum EQ. I have recreated Tyl hd-800 that can be found here http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response. 
 
Im comparing the fab filter pro q2 vs Sonarworks.
So far, surprisingly in min phase mode in both plugin, I prefer fab filter pro q 2. Now, is it because the curve differ between sonarworks and Tyl's, or is it because fab filter plugin somehow sounds better. 
 
 
all very early findings though.
 
 
 
 
EDIT:I can confirm, Sonarworks is better then Tyl EQ at least in fab filter. 
Im absolutely sold on sonarworks. WOW.
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 12:46 AM Post #333 of 1,974
I used the linear settings as the other two never sounded correct to me (and sometimes led to musicus interruptus…)
 
And the added latency isn't an issue with my setup, so it was a no brainer.
 
JJ
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 2:49 AM Post #334 of 1,974
  I used the linear settings as the other two never sounded correct to me (and sometimes led to musicus interruptus…)
 
And the added latency isn't an issue with my setup, so it was a no brainer.
 
JJ

Used? Have you stopped using Sonarworks?
 
I'm surprised you use LP, as min phase is supposedly more natural sounding. Ive been reading about the matter and from what I gather, most pro will tell you that they will use LP EQ only when really necessary as it introduce ringing and unnnaturlness as Linea phase does not occur in nature. analog hardware eq always are min phase... 
 
I guess ill have to spend more time in LP mode, but so far i find that LP is less natural, bit more crisp and unrelaxed and unnatural compared to min phase.
maybe im imagining it though
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 4:36 AM Post #335 of 1,974
And on a different note…
 
I just added a 2nd Wyrd inline with my original unit.
 
I also added 2 new usb cables
A stubby 6" Belkin A-B cable from amazon ($4.99) and a Schiit Pyst USB cable ($20).
These will replace a 2m "Belkin Pro Series USB for optimum data transfer" cable that was to long.
 
The changes I've noticed thus far are an increase in the presentation of the sonic 'landscape' or stage.
There is more focus and delineation in the 'voices' as well as solidity in their placement within the 'landscape' and an increase in the micro-details.
And I haven't fully tweaked these new cables yet.
 
Big Poppa told me about the 6" Belkin as being a huge improvement over a too long USB cable of a generic type.
And he is right, it along with the 2nd Wyrd is a significant step up.
And of course he is also experimenting with several different usb 'cleaners', all in a row just to find out which combination works 'best'.
 
As for the $20 Pyst cable, I figured it was worth a shot as a feeder cable from the Mac to the 1st Wyrd.
And it has all the 'good stuff', as in it's silver, cladded over copper, on the data lines and oversized wires for the power wires, and is made by Straight Wire…
 
Bottom line if you want to experiment with enhancing your USB feed for ≈$150 (and the Wyrd and Pyst cable are returnable within 15 days) give this a shot and see if it works for you as well.
 
And my Akiko stick 2nd gen experiment comes to an end this weekend when the 2 'loaner' sticks (a RCA dbl wire, and a wireless canister) go back.
It'll force me to figure out the differences that these 2 sticks make.
 
All while dealing with the 2nd Wyrd and new cables.
 
JJ
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 4:50 AM Post #336 of 1,974
  Used? Have you stopped using Sonarworks?
 
I'm surprised you use LP, as min phase is supposedly more natural sounding. Ive been reading about the matter and from what I gather, most pro will tell you that they will use LP EQ only when really necessary as it introduce ringing and unnnaturlness as Linea phase does not occur in nature. analog hardware eq always are min phase... 
 
I guess ill have to spend more time in LP mode, but so far i find that LP is less natural, bit more crisp and unrelaxed and unnatural compared to min phase.
maybe im imagining it though

I didn't entirely stop using Sonarworks, but I have replicated the reverse of the actual curve of my modded 800's using a couple of parametric EQ's and with this setup I can fuss with more resolution than Sonarworks allows.
 
I do still use it for the 'VU' meters to tell me when (anymore, if) I clip the digital stream.
And I use it as a 'standard' by which to compare any of my further tweaking.
 
As for the difference between the min-mixed-linear phase choices.
I found that fine detail (resolution) was more obscured in the mixed and the min introduced 'musicus interruptus' so it wasn't viable.
And I can understand the reasoning why the pro's like less latency etc. but it was fairly clear that the linear option was 'Better', and there are others who chose this setting as well.
Go figure…
 
Are you using the 'No Limits' curve with your 800's?
 
JJ
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 8:50 AM Post #337 of 1,974
Hi gents, I hope you don't mind me intruding on the thread but I think I have a simple trick you may like.
I have the OPPO ha1 2014 second hand and cleaned the connectors with IPA.
No real change but at least it's good house keeping.

I have been following an good engineer upgrading with new parts. As it's a business and I can only solder and keep hearing about cables... The guys in work use contact cleaner. I did the Googling and found Caig Deoxit. You may have used or heard of others.
My first experiment was the USB and RCA. Both improved but the RCA connectors by a good margin from my little FIIOX3 II. With this I did all my connections and RCA USB Cables OTG my phone power strip and wall socket.
Again definitely a boost to clarity I was hearing.

As the DIYAUDIO guy Coris explained how to open up the OPPO ha1. Most of the internal connections are the usual crimped on wire onto pins in a plastic clip type. I undid the clips, wiped with IPA then used 100% red deoxit.

This was the icing on the cake .. Now every none soldered connection is cleaned and deoxited. ...

The overall difference especially internally has been suprising. It's like I have bought a new machine headphones and music.

£7 has been the best investment I have done. I thought the Supra cable was good.

I'd love to hear what you think especially if you can get inside.

But use ESD protection and plug the cable in switched off. Warranty may be affected for inside.

The guy coris also earth shielded some cables and components for heat RFI and EMI. I will try that next.

But try it on your cables Amp connectors and power chain. If you can safely and with confidence inside connections.

I have spread this about to pay back good advice I have had off HFI but few believe or want to try...

All I have done is reset the potential of my kit. Not a mod but it may help..

I hope this helps on the special journey you do here on this experimental thread

Good luck and keep smiling

Dave
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 11:49 AM Post #338 of 1,974
  I didn't entirely stop using Sonarworks, but I have replicated the reverse of the actual curve of my modded 800's using a couple of parametric EQ's and with this setup I can fuss with more resolution than Sonarworks allows.
 
I do still use it for the 'VU' meters to tell me when (anymore, if) I clip the digital stream.
And I use it as a 'standard' by which to compare any of my further tweaking.
 
As for the difference between the min-mixed-linear phase choices.
I found that fine detail (resolution) was more obscured in the mixed and the min introduced 'musicus interruptus' so it wasn't viable.
And I can understand the reasoning why the pro's like less latency etc. but it was fairly clear that the linear option was 'Better', and there are others who chose this setting as well.
Go figure…
 
Are you using the 'No Limits' curve with your 800's?
 
JJ

I found the settings of Tyl's inner fidelity EQ :
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response
 
Low shelf
22hz
-4.6 db
1.16 Q
 
Low shelf
75hz
+3.25 db
0.75Q
 
bell
750hz
+2.4 db
0.41 Q
 
bell
6110hz
-5 db
3Q
 
High self
10 400hz
-5.4 db
1.5 Q
 
comparing tyl's setting to sonarworks, I still prefer sonarworks.
 
 
 
Ill try the LP phase mode. Pro dont use LP mode too often not only because of latency, but much most importantly as it introduce pre ringing which can be (Very) audible when you try to eq a kick drum or a sound with fast transient. all threads I have read definitely seems to point that linear phase is far less natural sounding. Linear phase add artifacts and pre ringing that is more detrimental to SQ then minimum phase.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/569408-linear-phase-versus-minimum-phase-eqs.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/703301-parametric-eq-linear-phase-when-mastering.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/441742-when-do-you-use-linear-phase-eq-over-minimum-phase-eq.html
http://www.head-fi.org/t/616153/linear-phase-vs-minimum-phase-eq-for-powerful-and-tight-bass-boost
 
 
 
Finally, can you share your eq settings and what VST eq you use? Im still using sonarworks demo and would like to compare your vst eq and settings vs sonarworks! 
 
thanks for this awesome thread, ill be following your development for sure!
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 12:00 PM Post #339 of 1,974
Oh one last thing, as I was inside my headphone Amp I thought about your AKIKO-AUDIO stick experiments.

As I was doing the push connectors. I undid all the PCB grounding screws and grounding wires and applied deoxit to the PCB, screws, washers, threads.

I am not sure if this helped but didn't hurt to improve the ground to earth..

For sound or safety.

Cheers
Dave
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 4:34 PM Post #340 of 1,974
Hi gents, I hope you don't mind me intruding on the thread but I think I have a simple trick you may like.
I have the OPPO ha1 2014 second hand and cleaned the connectors with IPA.
No real change but at least it's good house keeping.

I have been following an good engineer upgrading with new parts. As it's a business and I can only solder and keep hearing about cables... The guys in work use contact cleaner. I did the Googling and found Caig Deoxit. You may have used or heard of others.
My first experiment was the USB and RCA. Both improved but the RCA connectors by a good margin from my little FIIOX3 II. With this I did all my connections and RCA USB Cables OTG my phone power strip and wall socket.
Again definitely a boost to clarity I was hearing.

As the DIYAUDIO guy Coris explained how to open up the OPPO ha1. Most of the internal connections are the usual crimped on wire onto pins in a plastic clip type. I undid the clips, wiped with IPA then used 100% red deoxit.

This was the icing on the cake .. Now every none soldered connection is cleaned and deoxited. ...

The overall difference especially internally has been suprising. It's like I have bought a new machine headphones and music.

£7 has been the best investment I have done. I thought the Supra cable was good.

I'd love to hear what you think especially if you can get inside.

But use ESD protection and plug the cable in switched off. Warranty may be affected for inside.

The guy coris also earth shielded some cables and components for heat RFI and EMI. I will try that next.

But try it on your cables Amp connectors and power chain. If you can safely and with confidence inside connections.

I have spread this about to pay back good advice I have had off HFI but few believe or want to try...

All I have done is reset the potential of my kit. Not a mod but it may help..

I hope this helps on the special journey you do here on this experimental thread

Good luck and keep smiling

Dave

I've been using the Caig DeOxit for a couple of decades now.
The Red and Blue are really meant for industrial switch contacts, as in high current contactors etc.
Their primary purpose is to dissolve the metal oxides that build up on the contacts as they oxidize (this is what Red does) and then 'protect them' (this is what Blue does).
 
For our audio uses I much prefer the DeOxit Gold instead.
It is a cleaner and 'contact enhancer' and is very effective on gold and silver etc metals.
The trick here is to use VERY little, as in lightly burnish the contact surface area with a light moistened cloth, but to make sure the metal contact area is free of any contamination.
Using more will attract more dust and surface contaminants all that much faster.
And usually the first use of these products will yield the most significant results mostly due to removal of surface contamination.
 
Gefski posted a picture of his cleaning kit previously in this thread ( I think) and you can see the removed contamination that has built up on his kit.
This 'crud' will degrade the SQ of the audio signal in very audible ways.
 
Also using DeOxit Gold on computer memory dimms and connectors (usb especially) etc can also help reduce 'errors'.
 
And I use the DeOxit gold cloth wipes and 'augment' the amount of 'gold' cleaner with a spray bottle to the wipes.
These wipes and spray bottle will last a REALLY long time, as in I am still using my original container of wipes and spray bottle from the 80's.
 
And there are other 'contact enhancer' type chemicals out there but they are more 'involved' in their use and are more costly as well.
 
So as a entry into 'contact enhancement' the Caig DeOxit Gold is the best place to start, at least from my experience.
 
JJ
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 4:38 PM Post #341 of 1,974
Oh one last thing, as I was inside my headphone Amp I thought about your AKIKO-AUDIO stick experiments.

As I was doing the push connectors. I undid all the PCB grounding screws and grounding wires and applied deoxit to the PCB, screws, washers, threads.

I am not sure if this helped but didn't hurt to improve the ground to earth..

For sound or safety.

Cheers
Dave

The one aspect about the grounding connections, is to make sure they are tight and free from corrosion etc.
And unless the unit has been 'fussed' with they usually are quite tight from the factory.
Still, making sure they retain a solid contact is the point.
 
The Red on them can't hurt but again make sure to use as little as possible.
 
JJ
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 5:44 PM Post #342 of 1,974
Thanks JJ,
in our Aerospace factory it's triple cleaned on our PCBS and the screws are oil free, no silicone allowed so tryed to get the earth 100%. Just going over board on my recent success, the sound is superb now.. From the wall socket to the headphone mini connectors.
I should get the chance to clean off the red this weekend and put the gold on...

I can't afford the Triple Akiko stick but can wait to see what mini hacks can be done with the dual pin. IFI purifier 2 and deoxit is all I have 8^(
This the pixie dust thread so Iam looking for the magic...

Good luck and thanks

Dave
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 6:30 PM Post #343 of 1,974
Thanks JJ,

I can't afford the Triple Akiko stick but can wait to see what mini hacks can be done with the dual pin. IFI purifier 2 and deoxit is all I have 8^(
This the pixie dust thread so Iam looking for the magic...

Good luck and thanks

Dave

 
Pass the pixie dust to the left hand side!!


JJ,
So I'm sending one of the phase reversal trick cables out to another member and going to explain to another one who may want to try it single ended. I just want to make sure that the pin 3 and 4 is flipped on the adapter cable itself, but if someone has a 4pin to 6.3mm TRS adapter afterwards going to an SE amp the PRT still works?
 
Apr 8, 2016 at 9:54 PM Post #344 of 1,974
Thanks JJ,
in our Aerospace factory it's triple cleaned on our PCBS and the screws are oil free, no silicone allowed so tryed to get the earth 100%. Just going over board on my recent success, the sound is superb now.. From the wall socket to the headphone mini connectors.
I should get the chance to clean off the red this weekend and put the gold on...

I can't afford the Triple Akiko stick but can wait to see what mini hacks can be done with the dual pin. IFI purifier 2 and deoxit is all I have 8^(
This the pixie dust thread so Iam looking for the magic...

Good luck and thanks

Dave

Pixie Dust-R-Us…
atsmile.gif

 
And if you REALLY want to 'enhance' the ground connections instead of the Caig Labs DeOxit Gold use some contact improvement paste.
This stuff is really powered silver in a suspension of oil or somesuch.
It will increase the contact patch size for the metal to metal contacts, thus lowering the resistance (if ever so slightly) of the ground connections.
 
This in some cases can result in significant improvements, such as 4 pin XLR connections.
 
JJ
atsmile.gif

 
Apr 8, 2016 at 10:11 PM Post #345 of 1,974
   
Pass the pixie dust to the left hand side!!


JJ,
So I'm sending one of the phase reversal trick cables out to another member and going to explain to another one who may want to try it single ended. I just want to make sure that the pin 3 and 4 is flipped on the adapter cable itself, but if someone has a 4pin to 6.3mm TRS adapter afterwards going to an SE amp the PRT still works?

Yes, the right channel (pins 3 & 4) are swapped.
 
And as long as the swapped pins (balanced wiring) is between the load (headphones) and the adapter that unbalances the 4 wires down to 3 wires (the TRS connector) it should work fine.
 
But DO NOT try to swap the right channel with ground while using only 3 wires.
That will short out the right channel, as in not a good thing.
 
However you can swap the right channel wires at the TRS, IF there are 4 wires with 2 going to each driver and they are not interconnected elsewhere.
 
I have an 4pin to TRS conversion adapter which works quite well, as does Big Poppa for his main connection to his Single Power amp.
This is also where he adds his Akiko stick, at the 4pin to TRS converter cable.
 
JJ
 

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