THE COMPOSER OPEN BACK FLAGSHIP by AUSTRIAN AUDIO

[rcoranje]

@rcoranje
Where NOMAX write about big differences in cables?
I've known him personally for a very long time, he's not a cable fetishist!

You are probably right that I mixed things up, There was quite some talking about cables in this discussion. If Nomax isn't to blame in this respect, I'm sorry.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

If I were to show you the measurement of your HP100 compared to the Composer, I would personally say a maximum of 500 usd






Yes, that's how it is when I have access to all of them.....and can and may use the best measuring equipment on earth with help from friends
(It would make Oratory's hair stand on end )

NOMAX

I’d be very interested in seeing the measurements of the HP100se as well. I’m curious about the supposed subbass extension that many folks talk about..yet when auditioning the Grado I just hear a normal Grado aka rolled off bass, FORWARD and shouty uppermids though now delivered in a decisively uncomfortable half a kilo package.
The Composer, while far from being my favourite headphone on the market, does subbass exceptionally well for an open headphone. Compared to the Grado it is a very natural sounding headphone - which isn’t saying all that much tbh.

 

[Gaurav Tyagi]

This combination represents a perfect sonic match. It rectifies all the issues the Composer has imo.

Roon -> Hugo2+2go -RCA-> Enleum 23RM -voltage-> Composer

 

[chesebert]

I’d be very interested in seeing the measurements of the HP100se as well. I’m curious about the supposed subbass extension that many folks talk about..yet when auditioning the Grado I just hear a normal Grado aka rolled off bass, FORWARD and shouty uppermids though now delivered in a decisively uncomfortable half a kilo package.
The Composer, while far from being my favourite headphone on the market, does subbass exceptionally well for an open headphone. Compared to the Grado it is a very natural sounding headphone - which isn’t saying all that much tbh.

A combination of under-amping and G or L pads can affect the sound quality. For a neutral sound signature, it’s recommended to use F or TTVJ pads. Under-amping typically leads to a lack of lower bass and rough upper mids. These are general guidelines for Grado headphones.

 

[shabta]

@CheseI am super curious about the grados. Can you say more about how it compares to the Composer? I agree the composer mids aren't sweet. The do have a liquid quality on the right tracks but there are a bit too forward sometimes...

Let's examine this more closely - to quote from the link:
In slang, a troll is a person who posts deliberately offensive or provocative messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, an online video game) or who performs similar behaviours in real life. The methods and motivations of trolls can range from benign to sadistic. These messages can be inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic, and may have the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perceptions, thus acting as a bully or a provocateur. The behaviour is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other people. Trolling behaviors involve tactical aggression to incite emotional responses, which can adversely affect the target's well-being.
Nomax is neither deliberately offensive (despite people posting offensive and false statements about him) nor provocative. None of this definition applies to him and in fact, the "troll" accusation smacks more of repeated trolling behaviour by the accuser(s). It's rude and needs to stop.

I would ask you to apply your analysis to the following exchange. I really detest all the name calling on this thread. Perhaps I misunderstood your implication, but it seems like you were implying some sort of misbehavior on my part. So please read:

Composer is not bad and is a good buy if you can get it new for $1500ish (add $200 for plastic spacers). At MSRP it’s wildly overpriced IMHO and not a blind buy at all.

If I were to show you the measurement of your HP100 compared to the Composer, I would personally say a maximum of 500 usd






Yes, that's how it is when I have access to all of them.....and can and may use the best measuring equipment on earth with help from friends
(It would make Oratory's hair stand on end )

NOMAX

Nomax clearly isn't just responding to the post. He is purposefully calling out something in the posters signature in such a way as to be personally provacative to say the least. It's not like @chesebert actually mentioned the grado.

Please share the HP100 FR and CSD. Would be great if you can also share the coupler and rig used and compensation curve, if any.

Please show both G and F pads. F pads will have the more neutral tuning and G pads will have the traditional John Grado tuning (wonky IMO). If you have TTVJ pads, use that for the most neutral tuning.

Both F and G pads are provided as part of the HP100 retail package BTW. TTVJ pads are $50 IIRC.

A fair request considering the seemingly arrogant condescending tone of Nomax's post.

Try to figure out the comparison yourself...why should I make it so easy for you

Source unknown
(Both highly regarded in the industry...also on my part)

......Bring your own ear plugs, BYOEP
.....I'd prefer not to get hearing damage

Nomax

PS.the F or G pads don't save this headphone for the advertised price (3.000 Euro/2.500 usd) either
(The future will show how far I am right or wrong ....That's how it is and always was when i raise my word)

Then Nomax ducks the whole argument that he started. We've seen this behavior over and over again. And someone actually gave it a name. I agree this is rude and should stop.

 

[chesebert]

I’d be very interested in seeing the measurements of the HP100se as well. I’m curious about the supposed subbass extension that many folks talk about..yet when auditioning the Grado I just hear a normal Grado aka rolled off bass, FORWARD and shouty uppermids though now delivered in a decisively uncomfortable half a kilo package.
The Composer, while far from being my favourite headphone on the market, does subbass exceptionally well for an open headphone. Compared to the Grado it is a very natural sounding headphone - which isn’t saying all that much tbh.

The HP100SE on F pads offers a more neutral frequency response compared to the Composer, avoiding the midrange suck out in the Composer. You can also use Google to find their respective FR graphs.

In meet condition, you can use Headamp CFA3 on low gain in ZF mode and ask to use F pads with Grados.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

The HP100SE on F pads offers a more neutral frequency response compared to the Composer, avoiding the midrange suck out in the Composer. You can also use Google to find their respective FR graphs.

In meet condition, you can use Headamp CFA3 on low gain in ZF mode and ask to use F pads with Grados.

I did catch the review over at SBAF but simply don’t trust the measurements nor their opinions.
It would however seem like there is better bass extension, which I congratulate Grado for. It was a long time coming.

Btw is a headphone that has way more energy around 1-2k more neutral than a headphone that has less (compared to both IEF and Harman neutral)? To me it’s potato potato. Midrange suckout vs midrange shoutiness

 

[chesebert]

I did catch the review over at SBAF but simply don’t trust the measurements nor their opinions.
It would however seem like there is better bass extension, which I congratulate Grado for. It was a long time coming.

Btw is a headphone that has way more energy around 1-2k more neutral than a headphone that has less (compared to both IEF and Harman neutral)? To me it’s potato potato. Midrange suckout vs midrange shoutiness

You probably auditioned the Grado with the salad bowl pads, which will not give you a neutral response. I also find Grados (John Grado) shouty with G or L pads with wonky sound profile. Don’t use those.

 

[Nomax]

You are probably right that I mixed things up, There was quite some talking about cables in this discussion. If Nomax isn't to blame in this respect, I'm sorry.

That's okay...no problem

This combination represents a perfect sonic match. It rectifies all the issues the Composer has imo.

Roon -> Hugo2+2go -RCA-> Enleum 23RM -voltage-> Composer

I am curious...i have to listen to the enelum again with the Composer .....when I find the time for it
(with the Stealth it was a disaster)

I’d be very interested in seeing the measurements of the HP100se as well. I’m curious about the supposed subbass extension that many folks talk about..yet when auditioning the Grado I just hear a normal Grado aka rolled off bass, FORWARD and shouty uppermids though now delivered in a decisively uncomfortable half a kilo package.
The Composer, while far from being my favourite headphone on the market, does subbass exceptionally well for an open headphone. Compared to the Grado it is a very natural sounding headphone - which isn’t saying all that much tbh.

Everything comes in its own time...you don't need me for that.....in the meantime...trust your own ears


NOMAX

PS.I wish all members a wonderful easter weekend with the model of your choice
(I have to dedicate this to the .....to take a closer look.....there are also others that take up my time before they become public)

 

[Rosland]

What amps are people using with the composer? I have tried Sparkos Gemini, Auralic Taurus, Magni Piety and Questyle M15i.

Of those I prefer Gemini. It has the perfect amount of warmth for Composer. With M15i a close second. Taurus disappointed me a bit, being just okay with Composer.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

You probably auditioned the Grado with the salad bowl pads, which will not give you a neutral response. I also find Grados (John Grado) shouty with G or L pads with wonky sound profile. Don’t use those.

No I tried it with the F-pads. Sounded like normal Grados do to my ears; forward/shouty and bright.
I admittedly didn’t throw any music at the HP100se in order to grok subbass response but didn’t feel the need as I already thought it sounded very much like a Grado.
…which is great news to Grado fans (I personally know a few), but not to me

Back to The Composer! I wish more companies would focus on comfort. You can say a lot about The Composer, but it is an absolute pleasure to wear. Way too many flagships on the market weigh in at over 500-600 grams, which is nuts for a headphone that doesn’t moonlight as a crash helmet.
Personally I’d much rather own something light and comfy over something heavy with exotic woods and metals…regardless of how nice the latter looks.

 

[Nomax]

Back to The Composer! I wish more companies would focus on comfort. You can say a lot about The Composer, but it is an absolute pleasure to wear.

Yes, spring steel has its own special properties

NOMAX

PS.provided you know how to use it

 

[lafeuill]

What amps are people using with the composer? I have tried Sparkos Gemini, Auralic Taurus, Magni Piety and Questyle M15i.

Of those I prefer Gemini. It has the perfect amount of warmth for Composer. With M15i a close second. Taurus disappointed me a bit, being just okay with Composer.

iFi Pro iCan with Pro iDSD as source, or Flux FA-10 Limited with Aune S16. These two setups get the most time with Composer.

The RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE is also an excellent pairing via the 4.4mm output.

V200 with Sparkos opamps was tried briefly and seemed quite adequate.

Both my DX300 and 320 are also great portable options.

It's very nice to enjoy my main headphones with all my gear.

 

[Zmey69]

It rectifies all the issues the Composer has imo.

Great! Awesome setup! The only weak link is the adapter from DDHIFI, it significantly degrades the sound in any setup. It would be better to replace it with an adapter from DHC. here: DHC Adapter

An R2R DAC might make an appreciable difference - it might not - depends on the DAC.

I have already written several times here about alternative cables for Composers. Not the ones from "No Name" China for $50-100-200. But proper cables worthy of these headphones from reputable brands. Earlier, I posted a small review about the Superconductor cable. Trust me, I wouldn’t waste even a minute on this hassle with cables and non-standard Composers connectors (searching for them somewhere, ordering, waiting) if I didn’t know that the effect of the replacement would be so significant that it’s worth all the trouble and every cent spent! And I wouldn’t be writing about it here, wasting my and your time!

Let’s make a deal. As soon as someone tries to change the cable to something more serious, like a Superconductor alternative or at least a cable from Norne Audio, the same Vygarde, Brise Audio (there’s even a ready-made cable with a Composers connector, just buy and use it), Eletech, PW, DHC Chimera, Cardas cable, please write here. The stock cable is not bad, I myself listened to it for about a month and it was fine for me, but its replacement unconditionally has a positive effect on the sound in my case. I have no doubt that replacing the stock cable with a thicker сonductor cross section (than the stock) will already bring positive changes. It’s just that few people want or can bother with changing the cable because of the special Composers connectors But enthusiasts like me will definitely find themselves and share their opinion.

Regarding R2R - if we’re talking about changing the mid-frequencies, R2R is the best option. Or a similar circuitry that provides analog sound. At the same time, the Composer greatly benefits from the quality of amplification (not the quantity, but the quality). The quality of DAC components. The Composer’s mid-frequencies need not more analog character, but some fatness, a bit more meatiness. This can be easily achieved by changing the cable and selecting the source.

PS: I have absolutely no doubt that the same cable from Brise Audio will be incomparably better than the stock Composers cable. Take pure copper and check it, compare it. There’s no need to even try to write otherwise. These are obvious things. Despite the fact that the stock cable is not bad, the sound of Composers can be significantly improved with a better cable.

Oh, come on... In audiophile community, there’s always talk about replacing power cables that affect the sound. For my Teac, they’re offering power cables costing $2000. A power cable, for crying out loud! And it affects the sound. There’s also a LAN cable that costs $1000 and affects the sound. And here we’re talking about an audio cable for headphones, which definitely makes a difference.

 

[jamesjames]

Great! Awesome setup! The only weak link is the adapter from DDHIFI, it significantly degrades the sound in any setup. It would be better to replace it with an adapter from DHC. here: DHC Adapter

I have already written several times here about alternative cables for Composers. Not the ones from "No Name" China for $50-100-200. But proper cables worthy of these headphones from reputable brands. Earlier, I posted a small review about the Superconductor cable. Trust me, I wouldn’t waste even a minute on this hassle with cables and non-standard Composers connectors (searching for them somewhere, ordering, waiting) if I didn’t know that the effect of the replacement would be so significant that it’s worth all the trouble and every cent spent! And I wouldn’t be writing about it here, wasting my and your time!

Let’s make a deal. As soon as someone tries to change the cable to something more serious, like a Superconductor alternative or at least a cable from Norne Audio, the same Vygarde, Brise Audio (there’s even a ready-made cable with a Composers connector, just buy and use it), Eletech, PW, DHC Chimera, Cardas cable, please write here. The stock cable is not bad, I myself listened to it for about a month and it was fine for me, but its replacement unconditionally has a positive effect on the sound in my case. I have no doubt that replacing the stock cable with a thicker сonductor cross section (than the stock) will already bring positive changes. It’s just that few people want or can bother with changing the cable because of the special Composers connectors But enthusiasts like me will definitely find themselves and share their opinion.

Regarding R2R - if we’re talking about changing the mid-frequencies, R2R is the best option. Or a similar circuitry that provides analog sound. At the same time, the Composer greatly benefits from the quality of amplification (not the quantity, but the quality). The quality of DAC components. The Composer’s mid-frequencies need not more analog character, but some fatness, a bit more meatiness. This can be easily achieved by changing the cable and selecting the source.

PS: I have absolutely no doubt that the same cable from Brise Audio will be incomparably better than the stock Composers cable. Take pure copper and check it, compare it. There’s no need to even try to write otherwise. These are obvious things. Despite the fact that the stock cable is not bad, the sound of Composers can be significantly improved with a better cable.

Oh, come on... In audiophile community, there’s always talk about replacing power cables that affect the sound. For my Teac, they’re offering power cables costing $2000. A power cable, for crying out loud! And it affects the sound. There’s also a LAN cable that costs $1000 and affects the sound. And here we’re talking about an audio cable for headphones, which definitely makes a difference.

I can agree that, 'in the audiophile community, there's always talk' - the question is always whether the talk has any basis in reality ...