THE COMPOSER OPEN BACK FLAGSHIP by AUSTRIAN AUDIO
Jan 8, 2024 at 5:38 AM Post #1,621 of 3,358
Neumann are popular and known for their ultra clean and transparent sound, but never heard about these headhpones in the audio engineering society being glorified

On the other hand, Audeze headphones especially LCD-X, MM500 and LCD-5 are higly praised in mix/mastering society, even Bob Katz uses them and says they are one of the most accurate when EQ is used with them. That`s why i was going for the LCD-5, but yesterday a guy in GEARSPACE forum that owns COMPOSER, LCD-5 and other AUDEZE headphones said that COMPOSER are better for mix/mastering from all of them, and that COMPOSER kinda gathers all the AUDEZE models good qualities in one.

So that made me rethink my purchase, and go for the COMPOSER , instead of the LCD-5.
In my personal opinion, I think the Composer is very suitable for studio work. I've listened to him for some days now and I think he's very neutral.

I used to work as a live sound engineer for a long time but never in the studio, but I would certainly consider to use a composer for a mix in the studio. I heard the LCD5 in the past but not at the same time as the Composer. I didn't liked the LCD5 but this is just my personal opinion.
 
Jan 8, 2024 at 9:53 AM Post #1,622 of 3,358
So I have been listening to the composer for a few days now. It's truly an excellent headphone. Not without flaws, but I can say that about everyheadphone LOL. Like all dynamics, it has just a little hint of graininess in the treble. But it has the speed of a great electrostatic, a finely resolving, almost infinitely extended treble, a full rich midrange and amazingly deep and tight bass. I almost think it's like what one perhaps wishes the HD800 might have been. The composer's soundstage is almost as wide, and beautifully layered.

Someone said that it get's you to 85 or 90% of the susvara. I find that hard to agree with. The timbre on the sus is so different, I feel like the comparison is apples to oranges. The overall quality of the Composer is in the league of summit-fi but they are such different beasts that if you want the sus get the sus. I don't have the susvara here, so maybe what I am saying is total BS, but the delicacy of the treble on the susvara is much closer to the best electrostatics. The bass on the composer slams better and feels deeper ( as opposed to is deeper). I heard the sus on the riveria, which was a revelation, but I still think the slam is better on the composer. The overall timbre of the SUS is magical, delicate and precise. The composer is more of an in your face beast. In any case, at the end of the day, I suppose I prefer the sus with the right super expensive amp, but I don't feel like spending. The composer sounds great on my lowly mojo 2 out of my phone.

The other thing that surprises me is how much you can hear the differences between amps and even dacs. As good as the mojo2 is, the schiit gugnir mb into the icon audio 8 mkii is noticably different (and yes better). The soundstage opens more and things become even more holographic. Now I am listening to the composer off a lehmann bcl fed by a meier stagedac. That's dryer than the icon/schiit. It also hypes the speed of the transients (as if that was even possible). Everything in my house is running off a LMS server through a raspberry pi with a pi2design hat into the coaxial of the dac.


I have a question for those composer owners out there, what are you running the composer off of? I am thinking about seeing how far I could take the composer...
 
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Jan 8, 2024 at 11:15 AM Post #1,623 of 3,358
...
I have a question for those composer owners out there, what are you running the composer off of? I am thinking about seeing how far I could take the composer...
Thanks for your impressions.

Here are my setups :

1- iBasso DX300 USB-C streaming or offline flac > iFi Pro iDSD DAC > Pro iCan amplifier (low gain)

2- iBasso DX300 USB-C streaming or offline flac > Aune S16 DAC > Flux Lab FA-10 Limited amplifier (low to mid gain)

3- iBasso DX300 + AMP12EXN (high gain)

4- Microsoft Surface Pro 9 > iBasso DC04 Pro

Setup #1 is useful to get dry mixes nicely warmed up thanks to the XBass settings.

#2 is mostly used with DCA Noire, but early tests are promising with the Composer.

#3 is an excellent portable pair-up. 50 to 60 / 100 average listening level, EXN mod works wonders with the Composer.

#4 to watch media content when away from home, very pleasant.
 
Jan 9, 2024 at 10:11 AM Post #1,624 of 3,358
I had the chance to demo the Composer alongside an HD800S and an HD600 a couple days ago. My only other experience with audiophile gear is with the HD598 and HD6XX, with the HD6XX being what I currently own at home.

With all three, I listened to a few of my favorite tracks, primarily orchestral/classical, although with a bit of gospel mixed in. On symphonies, the HD800S felt like I was sitting in the concert hall. The instruments felt balanced and positioned like I would expect if I was quite close to the stage, but not "in" the orchestra. The Composer felt more like I was in the orchestra itself. Also, the Composer made it so I felt the bass from the cellos (is that called subbass?), it seemed a bit exaggerated to me. Listening to the Imperial March from the Star Wars: A New Hope soundtrack really rumbled with the Composer, which is not really an experience I remember from the concert hall.

For violin solos, I listened to Henryk Szeryng's performance of Bach's Sonatas and Partitas. The HD800S brought out echos in the recording which I had heard previously, but which now made me feel like I was in the room, hearing the performance live. Again, it felt natural to me. I could hear the same details with the Composer, but it felt more like I was listening to a recording.

However, when I got to Kirk Franklin's Love Theory, the HD800S fell flat. I'm not a bass head, but the HD800S didn't feel right here, even though I could hear all the instruments. In contrast, the Composer's rendition of this track was much more enjoyable. I'm not sure why, as by that time I needed to leave before I could parse out the differences.

As for the HD600, well it just seemed to pale in comparison. No matter what I was listening to, the recording felt compressed, with all the instruments and sound just mashed together, and I was shocked to realize that this sad sound was also the familiar sound of my HD6XX. Needless to say I didn't spend much time demoing that one.

That said, the price of either the HD800S or the Composer is a bit difficult to stomach. But I'm definitely on the hunt for an upgrade.
 
Jan 9, 2024 at 3:36 PM Post #1,625 of 3,358
I had the chance to demo the Composer alongside an HD800S and an HD600 a couple days ago. My only other experience with audiophile gear is with the HD598 and HD6XX, with the HD6XX being what I currently own at home.

With all three, I listened to a few of my favorite tracks, primarily orchestral/classical, although with a bit of gospel mixed in. On symphonies, the HD800S felt like I was sitting in the concert hall. The instruments felt balanced and positioned like I would expect if I was quite close to the stage, but not "in" the orchestra. The Composer felt more like I was in the orchestra itself. Also, the Composer made it so I felt the bass from the cellos (is that called subbass?), it seemed a bit exaggerated to me. Listening to the Imperial March from the Star Wars: A New Hope soundtrack really rumbled with the Composer, which is not really an experience I remember from the concert hall.

For violin solos, I listened to Henryk Szeryng's performance of Bach's Sonatas and Partitas. The HD800S brought out echos in the recording which I had heard previously, but which now made me feel like I was in the room, hearing the performance live. Again, it felt natural to me. I could hear the same details with the Composer, but it felt more like I was listening to a recording.

However, when I got to Kirk Franklin's Love Theory, the HD800S fell flat. I'm not a bass head, but the HD800S didn't feel right here, even though I could hear all the instruments. In contrast, the Composer's rendition of this track was much more enjoyable. I'm not sure why, as by that time I needed to leave before I could parse out the differences.

As for the HD600, well it just seemed to pale in comparison. No matter what I was listening to, the recording felt compressed, with all the instruments and sound just mashed together, and I was shocked to realize that this sad sound was also the familiar sound of my HD6XX. Needless to say I didn't spend much time demoing that one.

That said, the price of either the HD800S or the Composer is a bit difficult to stomach. But I'm definitely on the hunt for an upgrade.
I become curious after reading your post. Since I have had the composer for only 5 days, I haven't tried it extensively with classical music.I have the HD800S. I even have a copy of the Szeryng you mentioned, and I am pretty familiar with it. There a few caveats, one is that both the senn and the AA are pretty reactive to what you feed it. The AA is much easier to drive, but I find it's more reactive to the dac than the senn, or more precisely, the dacs I have on hand. The other thing is that my brain has burn in issues, it gets used to a headphone, so when I switch it almost always sounds weird for a bit. So I tried longer listening, rather than quick back and forths, to give my addled brain a chance to catch up.


The last thing is that for me when I play something like Beyonce Renaisance, or Kendrick Lamar's to pimp a butterfly, it's not even close. Although the HD800s reflects everything in the mix, it is almost like half the music is missing, the bottom end on the Composer is beguiling, full and fun. The HD800s is one of the very best headphones for classical music and symphony in particular, so this is an interesting test.

For the Szeryng Bach, the HD800 wins hands-down. The violin just sounds a little more airy and right. The HD800s treble is so lit up that it's like you hear every nuance of the bow on the string. Actually the composer felt that way too, until I listened to the HD800s. Another interesting thing is that the violin was more piercing on the Composer, even though the Senn is more trebly.
So just for fun, I played Isabelle Faust's hi res version of the same Bach piece (in the this case sonata no 1). Now this is a modern recording, the sound is spectacular, and Faust is a modern master. Wow, to my total surprise, the gap between the headphones became much narrower. I can say the Senn is still slightly my favorite. But the Composer has a kind of deeply resonant quality that makes you feel like your hearing more of the richness of the violin. But the airiness of the senn seemed like the slightly better tradeoff. But it was so close I could imagine I decide the opposite tomorrow.
So next I moved to symphony. Actually, I kind of hate Symphony on headphones. The soundstage is usually way to narrow and everything takes place inside my head. I am probably a 2 channel stereo guy, but due to travel, my desire to keep good relations with my wife and the fact that my stereo gives off so much heat that in the swelter of southern france summer, I find myself grateful for the opportunity to keep the tunes flowing that headphones offer.

Anyway, so given all that, the single reason that I will never sell the HD800S is that it's about as good as symphony gets on headphones, at least until you spend seriousl;y more money. So I tried Klieber's definitive version of Brahms 4th. And having gained some curiousity after the last test, I also tried Chailly's Brahms. I used the 3rd movement of the 4th symphony, lots of banging on the drums and huge dynamic shifts from loud to soft.

Here it wasn't as immediately obvious to me which was better, but Ok the senn is better. The overall openess and slightly wider staging partially overcomes what I don't like about headphones and symphony. On the Klieber (a considerably older recording), instruments sound more crowded together on the Composer. I get why you might find it too boomy, but I did actually like the visceral feel of the tympani on the composer better than the more timid rendering of the Senn. This could be because we used different dacs/amps, I dunno. I am using the lehmann BCL and meier stagedac for this test. When I switched to Chailly, once again the differences narrowed. The Composer opened up much more. The boomy-ness of the tympani was less. Still I liked the senn better, again the airiness and wider staging is worth losing a little bottom end.

So headphones seem to have this problem that there is no jack of all trades. The Composer is ok for classical, the HD800s is better. But for a ton of other music, I am guessing the composer wins. Just out of curiosity what was driving the headphones?
 
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Jan 9, 2024 at 6:47 PM Post #1,626 of 3,358
In my personal opinion, I think the Composer is very suitable for studio work. I've listened to him for some days now and I think he's very neutral.

I used to work as a live sound engineer for a long time but never in the studio, but I would certainly consider to use a composer for a mix in the studio. I heard the LCD5 in the past but not at the same time as the Composer. I didn't liked the LCD5 but this is just my personal opinion.
I've not heard the Composer but have used the LCD5 and the Neumann NDH30 - I use Neumann near-field monitors regularly. Anyone who regards the Neumann monitors as neutral is likely, I think, to find the NDH30 phones superior to the LCD5 for monitoring purposes. The LCD5 presents much more high frequency energy. I have the AKG K812, which is much closer to the NDH30 - I would be surprised if the Composer steered closer to the LCD5.
 
Jan 9, 2024 at 7:08 PM Post #1,627 of 3,358
I had the chance to demo the Composer alongside an HD800S and an HD600 a couple days ago. My only other experience with audiophile gear is with the HD598 and HD6XX, with the HD6XX being what I currently own at home.

With all three, I listened to a few of my favorite tracks, primarily orchestral/classical, although with a bit of gospel mixed in. On symphonies, the HD800S felt like I was sitting in the concert hall. The instruments felt balanced and positioned like I would expect if I was quite close to the stage, but not "in" the orchestra. The Composer felt more like I was in the orchestra itself. Also, the Composer made it so I felt the bass from the cellos (is that called subbass?), it seemed a bit exaggerated to me. Listening to the Imperial March from the Star Wars: A New Hope soundtrack really rumbled with the Composer, which is not really an experience I remember from the concert hall.

For violin solos, I listened to Henryk Szeryng's performance of Bach's Sonatas and Partitas. The HD800S brought out echos in the recording which I had heard previously, but which now made me feel like I was in the room, hearing the performance live. Again, it felt natural to me. I could hear the same details with the Composer, but it felt more like I was listening to a recording.

However, when I got to Kirk Franklin's Love Theory, the HD800S fell flat. I'm not a bass head, but the HD800S didn't feel right here, even though I could hear all the instruments. In contrast, the Composer's rendition of this track was much more enjoyable. I'm not sure why, as by that time I needed to leave before I could parse out the differences.

As for the HD600, well it just seemed to pale in comparison. No matter what I was listening to, the recording felt compressed, with all the instruments and sound just mashed together, and I was shocked to realize that this sad sound was also the familiar sound of my HD6XX. Needless to say I didn't spend much time demoing that one.

That said, the price of either the HD800S or the Composer is a bit difficult to stomach. But I'm definitely on the hunt for an upgrade.
Many thanks for these impressions - very interesting indeed. I too listen to classical music - orchestral and chamber - and recognize the HD800S as you've described it. The real point of the HD800S - I've always thought - is to create the sense of a performance space at some distance from me as the listener. I accept that this may be a negative attribute for many who don't listen to acoustic music. I guess it's behind the common criticism that the image is too large, or wide. The only other phones I've encountered that to my ear compete with the HD800S are the Beyer T1, the K812 and, more recently, the Audio Technica ADX5000 (planars and e-stats seem 'synthetic' to me - not convincing). I would be very interested in comments from anyone who has heard both the ADX5000 and the Composer - as some comments above suggest to me they might share some qualities.

EDIT
I should add that one personal reservation in relation to the ADX5000 is in fact that it doesn't image as well as the HD800S - it's not so good at creating that sense of distance that I like.
 
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Jan 9, 2024 at 7:17 PM Post #1,628 of 3,358
The last thing is that for me when I play something like Beyonce Renaisance, or Kendrick Lamar's to pimp a butterfly, it's not even close. Although the HD800s reflects everything in the mix, it is almost like half the music is missing, the bottom end on the Composer is beguiling, full and fun.
Yes, this reflects my experience when I turned to Kirk Franklin. I'm not sure if it's just the low end, but there was definitely something missing from the HD800S and not from the Composer. I suspect that the same would apply to virtually any pop/non-acoustic music.
So just for fun, I played Isabelle Faust's hi res version of the same Bach piece (in the this case sonata no 1). Now this is a modern recording, the sound is spectacular, and Faust is a modern master. Wow, to my total surprise, the gap between the headphones became much narrower.
That's so interesting...I wonder how mixing/mastering has changed since Szeryng's performance (1968) to now. That said it's not like the HD800 series is that old (2009 for the original HD800?), it's actually closer time-wise to current recordings.
Just out of curiosity what was driving the headphones?
The store set me up with Roon/Tidal --ethernet--> Merging+Anubis. An interesting setup which seemed to have plenty of headroom. I also listened to the same tracks on my iPhone with Apple Music lossless --> Apple Lightning to 3.5mm adapter. I tend to listen at pretty low volumes, so both setups seemed adequate to me, with the Composer easier to drive. I did hear some differences when switching source chains, but not enough to describe them.
 
Jan 9, 2024 at 7:27 PM Post #1,629 of 3,358
Many thanks for these impressions - very interesting indeed. I too listen to classical music - orchestral and chamber - and recognize the HD800S as you've described it. The real point of the HD800S - I've always thought - is always to create the sense of a performance space at some distance from me as the listener. I accept that this may be a negative attribute for many who don't listen to acoustic music. I guess it's behind the common criticism that the image is too large, or wide. The only other phones I've encountered that to my ear compete with the HD800S are the Beyer T1, the K812 and, more recently, the Audio Technica ADX5000 (planars and e-stats seem synthetic to me).
You're welcome! I've been longing after an HD800S ever since I got my HD6XX in 2020, but this was the first time I got to try them in person. And it was only by recommendation of the store clerk that I tried the Composer, and it's definitely strong. If the HD800S wins for acoustic, it's still a close race, whereas the Composer wins my brief comparison with Kirk Franklin hands down.

And thanks for the tips on other headphones to try! I'm always struggling to parse out reviews and see if they apply to classical music, as I feel like the requirements are somewhat different, and there just aren't as many classical listeners.
 
Jan 9, 2024 at 7:35 PM Post #1,630 of 3,358
You're welcome! I've been longing after an HD800S ever since I got my HD6XX in 2020, but this was the first time I got to try them in person. And it was only by recommendation of the store clerk that I tried the Composer, and it's definitely strong. If the HD800S wins for acoustic, it's still a close race, whereas the Composer wins my brief comparison with Kirk Franklin hands down.

And thanks for the tips on other headphones to try! I'm always struggling to parse out reviews and see if they apply to classical music, as I feel like the requirements are somewhat different, and there just aren't as many classical listeners.
Well, I should say many would regard me I think as a bit narrow in my interest in classical music, and preference for dynamic phones. So be warned! One other point that occurred to me reading the posts here is that recording quality does indeed vary greatly. Well recorded music with good dynamic range is generally going to sound better on all phones (unless they're complete rubbish). I think one of the (many) virtues of the HD800S is that it's truly a chameleon. More than any other transducer I've encountered, it's transparent to the source (recording, electronic chain, etc). That means not everything sounds good! Bad recordings suffer in particular. But I think that's the price one pays for high fidelity.

EDIT
I should add I still have very high hopes for the Composer! I've long enjoyed my AKG K812.
 
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Jan 9, 2024 at 11:00 PM Post #1,631 of 3,358
I have two K1000s (sn 3xxx and 12xxx), K601, K701, K240M, K240 sextett. I was long waiting for a new headphone that has similar tonality to the older AKGs but with modern hiend resolution and detail level.

Would love to hear some verdict from vintage AKG lovers who had heard the composer on the comparison with old AKGs.
 
Jan 10, 2024 at 3:18 AM Post #1,632 of 3,358
Well, I should say many would regard me I think as a bit narrow in my interest in classical music, and preference for dynamic phones. So be warned! One other point that occurred to me reading the posts here is that recording quality does indeed vary greatly. Well recorded music with good dynamic range is generally going to sound better on all phones (unless they're complete rubbish). I think one of the (many) virtues of the HD800S is that it's truly a chameleon. More than any other transducer I've encountered, it's transparent to the source (recording, electronic chain, etc). That means not everything sounds good! Bad recordings suffer in particular. But I think that's the price one pays for high fidelity.

EDIT
I should add I still have very high hopes for the Composer! I've long enjoyed my AKG K812.

To my ears, the Composer implements music in a fairly neutral way.

But this also means that bad recordings are not beautifully colored. It sounds crazy, but I like listening to old / bad recordings on Apple AirPods Max because the tuning makes them more pleasing. This will definitely not happen on the Composer. Bad input -> bad output!

But the more I listen to the composer in the last few days, the more I like it. I particularly like that I can hear with low volume and all the details and a reasonable amount of bass are there.
 
Jan 10, 2024 at 2:19 PM Post #1,634 of 3,358
You're welcome! I've been longing after an HD800S ever since I got my HD6XX in 2020, but this was the first time I got to try them in person. And it was only by recommendation of the store clerk that I tried the Composer, and it's definitely strong. If the HD800S wins for acoustic, it's still a close race, whereas the Composer wins my brief comparison with Kirk Franklin hands down.

And thanks for the tips on other headphones to try! I'm always struggling to parse out reviews and see if they apply to classical music, as I feel like the requirements are somewhat different, and there just aren't as many classical listeners.

If you're willing to EQ the HD800's with oratory1990 eq profile you can get the tonality of the HD6xx, more bass and keep all the benefits of that the HD800's provides. Just a thought. Out of everything I tried its still my favorite open back.
 

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