[lafeuill]

My point is. Linear measured bass is perceived by some as sufficient sub bass and by others (and science!) as totally lacking of sub bass.

and I also want to prepare you carefully when amir will review the headphone outcome might not be so positive as here.

I just received mine, and concur with @plakat , no issue with subbass extention and quality, whether playing electronic music rich in the low end or testing with this :
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencychecklow.php

Quite the contrary actually

 

[Trinkle]

My point is. Linear measured bass is perceived by some as sufficient sub bass and by others (and science!) as totally lacking of sub bass.

and I also want to prepare you carefully when amir will review the headphone outcome might not be so positive as here.

I personally do not like elevated sub-bass and found the HD 800S almost perfect , but I appreciate all the measurements if done properly from anybody, but yeah I get your point of preparing for a not so positive review hahaha

 

[ClicketEKlack]

What appeals to me about the Composer is what drew me to the Utopia -- the ability to drive it with almost any amp or DAP. If you travel for work, the Susvara is pretty much useless, unless you plan to carry a steamer trunk's worth of expensive, fragile, and fiddly gear. Having a TOTL headphone that you can stick in a Shanling and enjoy is a huge plus. If it's a hair less resolving... well... Xavier on King of the Hill said it best.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

My point is. Linear measured bass is perceived by some as sufficient sub bass and by others (and science!) as totally lacking of sub bass.

and I also want to prepare you carefully when amir will review the headphone outcome might not be so positive as here.

Having a linear sub/bass means it has sub/bass all through that range. Rolled off can be having less or no perceivable on certain frequency/s. Boosted/elevated means the word itself which is what you are looking for and interpreting as having sub/bass.

Also Amir should listen and give his evaluation first and then measure to compare his subjective to objective results and not the other way around.

 

[Pan Varox]

I got a rental Composer from local headphone store and as far as I can tell these are beautifully made with clearly a lot of work and attention put into construction.

I have to listen more but for now I can say the sound is really complete - nothing is lacking, nothing is weird and the amount and quality of bass caught me off-guard. Soundstage isn't crazy spacious, but still above average and instruments are very well separated. It sounds great both with electronic music as well as acoustic and anything between

 

[Tano]

Why do we all need to bash Amir's own comments, we can just look at his measurements and ignore his personal comments, which generally occupy only a small portion of the whole review. I would doubt he tampers the measurements to bolster his own personal feelings.

Not bashing him, just my opinion. I love what he does, his measurements are very useful and I read ASR almost everyday.
I just think that they give too much importance to the adherence to harman.

 

[Tano]

My point is. Linear measured bass is perceived by some as sufficient sub bass and by others (and science!) as totally lacking of sub bass.

and I also want to prepare you carefully when amir will review the headphone outcome might not be so positive as here.

Do you realise how hard is to get boosted subbass from an open back headphone without overdamping or turning It into a semi-open?
I think that getting a linear bass is already an achievement. You can always EQ to adjust it to your liking.

 

[plakat]

Especially the bass presentation is really well done. To me it’s one of the best I know, and definitely the best out of an open headphone. Quite a feat, but far from a one trick pony this is balanced by a nicely resolving midrange and treble.

I’m still sharing listening time between my GH2, the Composer and the E3, while going through some others today as well: an Abyss Diana (whatever version), a closed ZMF and, again, the Stealth.

The Diana was a bit strange from its tonal balance and easily bested by the E3, plus its headband… what exactly were they thinking by not having any padding? Plus the fixed cups with the rather shallow pads… no thanks. Especially not at that price point.

The ZMF was… simply not good. Midcentric with completely off tonality. I did not even care to find out how that model is called exactly. It’s enormous cups… wow.

The Stealth somehow still interests me, yet I think overall I like the sound signature of the E3 a bit better — my wallet was slightly relaxed…

I’m mostly into closed back headphones, so I don’t regret getting the E3 to accompany the Composer, but the Composer is more comfortable to me while offering a bit brighter sound with just as good bass… if only it were closed. That would close my search for many years I think… but oh well.

 

[Tachyon88]

I personally do not like elevated sub-bass and found the HD 800S almost perfect , but I appreciate all the measurements if done properly from anybody, but yeah I get your point of preparing for a not so positive review hahaha

I actually think it will get a positive review considering the flat bass for a DD, but if that comes at the cost of distortion, then maybe not. If distortion is typical of a good DD, then I think it will definitely be seen as impressive for the flat bass and FR that hugs Harman pretty close already.

 

[SolarCetacean]

Sub-bass perception is as much about the midrange tuning as it is about the actual sub-bass quantity. I recall Dan Clark said that they once built a prototype that measured flat (acoustically, not compensated) between 20 Hz and 4 KHz. He said that this prototype sounded extremely bassy even though it measured flat in the bass because the midrange ear gain and presence regions were dramatically cut back.

If you have a Harman midrange, then yeah, I think you'd need that bass shelf because the midrange emphasis means that bass becomes less perceptible in comparison without the quantity. My reading on this subject suggests that it comes from how our ear/brain perceives loudness. We judge the general loudness of a sound by its midrange (500 Hz - 5 KHz or so) where our hearing is most sensitive, thus if you have an emphasized midrange, your brain will say "it's loud enough" earlier. If you have flat bass vs Harman midrange, then bass is some 5 dB lower in quantity at any given loudness level, so you need that 5 dB bass shelf to compensate.

But if you drop the midrange, say keep Harman shape but make it only a 4 dB rise vs flat bass, then you'd need to turn up the volume roughly 1 dB to get the same general perceived loudness vs a Harman midrange. That means you get another dB of bass quantity vs mids quantity automatically. This is the technique Audeze (and most planar manufacturers) used in their headphones to get that bassy character; less mids, flat bass means that you turn up the volume to get the mids where you want them in loudness, and the bass comes along for the ride.

Coming back to the Composer, that dip in the midrange will cut the overall loudness perceived in the midrange. We will need to turn up the volume more before our brains go "that's loud enough". There will be more sub-bass presence perceived vs a Harman-midrange headphone as a result when you match loudness. This is why I'm not a fan of matching graphs at 1 KHz. That's not how our ears and brain perceive volume - that sort of matching is meant for our eyes, not our ears.

 

[Tachyon88]

It’s enormous cups… wow

I like hamburgers in my mouth not on my head ! lol

 

[plakat]

I like hamburgers in my mouth not on my head ! lol

Well said...
The Composer is so much more elegant and low profile.

 

[shabta]

There is also the comfort factor. The Focal Utopia kills my neck after a short amount of time. I also don't like the sound better than the Composer. The soundstage is too narrow for one thing. I haven't heard nutopia, but the soundstage or the neck pain won't be any different.

Other top of the line phones I spent time with are SR009 (too thin, like my HD800 better), Shangrila SR (it's ok but nowhere near the HE1 and I liked the Susvara better with the riveria and dave), some abyss ( waay tooo heavvvy and funny tonal balance). Wish I heard the warwick acoustive bravura and aperio, stax sr9000( I still love my SR007).

Anyway I ordered a Composer. Unfortunately I won't be home for another 2 weeks

 

[Daiyama]

Especially the bass presentation is really well done. To me it’s one of the best I know, and definitely the best out of an open headphone. Quite a feat, but far from a one trick pony this is balanced by a nicely resolving midrange and treble.

I’m still sharing listening time between my GH2, the Composer and the E3, while going through some others today as well: an Abyss Diana (whatever version), a closed ZMF and, again, the Stealth.

The Diana was a bit strange from its tonal balance and easily bested by the E3, plus its headband… what exactly were they thinking by not having any padding? Plus the fixed cups with the rather shallow pads… no thanks. Especially not at that price point.

The ZMF was… simply not good. Midcentric with completely off tonality. I did not even care to find out how that model is called exactly. It’s enormous cups… wow.

The Stealth somehow still interests me, yet I think overall I like the sound signature of the E3 a bit better — my wallet was slightly relaxed…

I’m mostly into closed back headphones, so I don’t regret getting the E3 to accompany the Composer, but the Composer is more comfortable to me while offering a bit brighter sound with just as good bass… if only it were closed. That would close my search for many years I think… but oh well.

Thanks for the info.
As I like ZMF closed back headphones quite a lot so I know now that I can skip the composer for me.

 

[plakat]

Anyway I ordered a Composer. Unfortunately I won't be home for another 2 weeks

Congratulations, I think you won't be disappointed. Its always hard to extrapolate from a short listening session to ownership, but I know that I grew very fond if the Composer in the weeks since I got mine. Which I had to wait for much longer than 2 weeks I first listend to it shortly after the start of this thread...