[bvelleko]

Currently I am using an iRiver E200. Just bought it 2 months ago, I'm not satisfied with it at all.
I've got some limited treble, unclear mids and a gui that is annoyingly slow.
 
So it's time to buy a new one, most important is the sound quality and the possibility to play FLAC files. I don't care about big touchscreens, video playback or looks. I just want to get the very best portable player on the market.
 
Some things that would be nice too:
 
16 GB of capacity
Mass storage, so no rubbish pc software to upload files
A quick gui, no wasted time on browsing trough files
USB charger
 
I'm gonna use it with the Sennheiser PXC 450 with an iBasso T3 (upgradable if needed)
 
Budget: 1000 euro
 
Does someone have any idea witch player would be the best choice to buy?

 

[Danneq]

Quote:

 
Budget: 1000 euro
 

 
 
Did I catch this correctly? 1000 euro? That is a lot!
 
Asking for the best portable player will get a lot of suggestions, all convinced that theirs is the best.
 
For a suggestion on a cheap portable player that can play FLAC, how about a Sansa Fuze. It can play video, but not very well. If you find a version 1 of the Fuze, you can install Rockbox which improves on the original firmware.
The Sansa Fuze goes up to 8GB. It has got a MicroSD slot which means that you can expand the memory. I think that the Fuze can read 32GB cards which means that you could have a small player with 40GB memory for not very much money (the 32GB card costing much more than the Fuze). Version 2 of the Fuze can also run Rockbox, but there are still some bugs, I think.
There is also the smaller Sansa Clip+, which is also considered to sound very good.
 
Sansa has recently released the follow up to the Fuze, the Fuze+. It is a bit bigger and there is no Rockbox port for it yet. I think that the Fuze+ can play FLAC as well with the original firmware, but I am not sure. Apparently it can, according to this which I found when I searched a bit on the net.
With the Fuze+ released, the original Fuze might become more and more difficult to find...
 
So in conclusion:
SanDisk Sansa players:
Sansa Fuze
Sansa Clip+
Sansa Fuze+
 
Other manufacturers:
Cowon S9
Cowon J3 (MicroSD card slot)
Cowon D2+ (SD card slot)
Creative Zen X-fi2
 
All of the above are touchscreen players. The S9 and J3 having capacitive touchscreens which are a bit easier to use than the resistive which the Cowon D2+ and Creative Zen X-fi2 uses.
If you do not mind touchscreens, perhaps the J3 would be a good choice. The biggest size you can buy is 32GB, and if you add a 32GB MicroSD card, you will have a total of 64GB!

 

[bvelleko]

Quick reply, thanks!
 
Yeah 1000 euros is lot. I know

 
I see that you have a lot portable players, do you hear differences in sound quality or levels between them? The quality is the only thing that makes the deal for me.
 
I don't mind about touchscreens at all, it looks pretty nice too. With that noted, is the Sansa still the best choice or would the J3 be better? That based on pure audio quality.

 

[Danneq]

Well, if I were to rank my players, it would look something like this:
 
JVC XA-HD500
Kenwood HD20GA7
Creative Zen Touch
Cowon S9
Sansa View
Creative Zen Vision
 
I leave the iRiver H120 out of comparison since I have left it back in Sweden and did not bring it to Japan where I live during 2010. By the way, the older iRiver players such as H120/140 and H320/340 are seen as their best ones. After those ones, it seems that the sound quality is not as good. I bought a used H120 on Ebay since I had read many reviews about it saying that it was a very good sounding MP3 player.
 
My ranking might change by mood, but I think not too much.
 
The JVC and Kenwoods are very rare Japanese DAP:s and they sound great. However, they cannot play lossless files. The Creative Zen Touch is the best Creative player I have heard, but quite old (released in 2004) and it does not play lossless. The Cowon S9 is great and has got a good EQ that you might need to tweak a bit to get the sound to your liking. It took a long while for me, and now I have found a good sound. The presets "Viva", "Viva2" and the three "Headphone" are also good.
 
I like older MP3 players and I am a bit of a collector of older and more rare models. Now when I am in Japan, I have had the chance of buying an old JVC and an old Kenwood player. They were both released around 2005 and still sound great compared to modern players.
If you could consider MP3 format, I would recommend the JVC and Kenwoods. I saw that there is a JVC for sale here on Head-fi right now. It is a very rare player outside of Japan and it sounds very good with a distinct bass, clear mids and very lush and nice highs. However, it is only 6GB and the gui is a bit old (considering it is 5 years old). I still like mine very much.
 
People might recommend the Nationite S:flo2 and the HifiMan players. These are Chinese build "audiophile" players. I prefer players built by larger companies - the build quality and quality control of smaller Chinese companies is not always the best. However, you want to use an amp, and I think that both of these have got line outs which the J3 and Clip+ does not.
 
With your big budget, you could go for a 32GB Cowon J3 AND Sansa Clip+ with a MicroSD card. And you might also have money to try out the JVC on sale here at Head-fi (however it only plays MP3 files).
 
My advice is to do a bit of searching and find different reviews and not go for the first player you are recommended. Wait until you feel that you've found "the right one".

 

[bvelleko]

nteresting post, that's fore sure!
 
The Sansdisk players are out for me, they look rubbish and fragile. Besides that I can't believe that they're better then an iRiver or Zen for example.
 
I'm getting curious about the Cowon players. They look great and offers a lot of stuff. Considering that I\m only gonna use them for listening music they are as good as the Zen's or the S:Flo2.
 
Looking at reviews, forums and stuff won't help me much. Most of the stuff I find is about a gui, options or usage. I'm looking for pure sound quality, nothing more or less.
 
Considering the options I have left I think I have to take a risk. If I have to choose now I'll go for the S:Flo2 because of the hardware, considering it's potential lifetime and service that might not be the best choice.
 
Older MP3-players are getting interesting for me, the JVC player looks absolutely sweet. Maybe I'll just buy it for a little personal collection. For daily use it's not an option because last month I got ALL my music in flac, because I have a lot music I don't consider going back to mp3.

 

[wmf]

 
Quote:

nteresting post, that's fore sure!
 
The Sansdisk players are out for me, they look rubbish and fragile. Besides that I can't believe that they're better then an iRiver or Zen for example.
 
I'm getting curious about the Cowon players. They look great and offers a lot of stuff. Considering that I\m only gonna use them for listening music they are as good as the Zen's or the S:Flo2.
 
Looking at reviews, forums and stuff won't help me much. Most of the stuff I find is about a gui, options or usage. I'm looking for pure sound quality, nothing more or less.
 
Considering the options I have left I think I have to take a risk. If I have to choose now I'll go for the S:Flo2 because of the hardware, considering it's potential lifetime and service that might not be the best choice.
 
Older MP3-players are getting interesting for me, the JVC player looks absolutely sweet. Maybe I'll just buy it for a little personal collection. For daily use it's not an option because last month I got ALL my music in flac, because I have a lot music I don't consider going back to mp3.

 
the sandisk players might look fragile and rubbish, but in my opinion, they sure sound good  ......
 
audio quality is right up there...considering their cost.
 

 

[penartur]

FLAC + mass storage means that rockox should fit your needs.
I didn't heard one, but they say that WhipMOD has awesome music quality (best of all rockboxeable DAPs?), and you can purchase brand new DAP with 240GB for $625, and a LOD cable for $130-$340, and you will left with enough money to purchase some good amp.
Another option is used iriver H120/H140 (these have digital optical output) plus some good DAC. You can upgrade HDD in these by yourself (by default, there is 20/40GB respectively).
However, if you don't want to carry two devices with you (DAP + DAC/amp), then i'd recommend you Kenwood HD60GD9 (60GB, about $600), Sony X1060 (32GB, about $400) or Sony NW-A847 (64GB, about $400). The problem is that neither of these supports FLAC; you should upload music on Kenwood with a special software and the only lossless format supported by DAP is KMA (kenwood's proprietary format), although the software will transcode WAV->KMA on the fly; the only lossless format supported by western sonys is PCM WAV; japanese sonys do support Atrac Advanced Lossless as well, but you need to use sony software to transcode your lossless into sony's.

 

[Hero Kid]

If you're going to order the s:flo2 be aware of the long pre-order wait for them to come into stock at mp4nation.
Check out House of Dap and look at the Telecast T51. It's the exact same player as the s:flo2, but will actually ship when you buy it (or a hell of a lot faster than mp4nation).

 

[violinvirtuoso]

If you are willing to spend 1000 Euros, why not look into the Hifiman HM-801? It is large, but will fit your requirements. The S:Flo 2 is also a nice option; it even has a LO. If you plan on using this DAP strictly with an amp, look at the DIYMod, iMod, WhipMod. They are great options if you want a lot of storage space. If not, the S:Flo 2 should fit your requirements.

 

[neeverr]

Hi all - congratulation for this great forum!
 
I definitely do not have 1000$.
In any case I have the same doubt: which is the best DAP to feed my panasonic HJE900 without amp (I only would like to carry 1 device)?
 
Please consider I already have a iphone4 as main mobile (CirrusLogic DAC, average board layout, almost decent SQ... nothing more that an acceptable SQ) and I usually use apple lossless format.
 
I would like to achieve a quantifiable benefit switching to a new source :>
 
I'm studying a used ipod video 5.5 80gb... to be used rockboxed with flac (without mods and separated amps); could it be a real upgrade to my iphone4? I do not think so.
I'm also informing about the cowon D2/S9 and the sony X and A series... probably all of them are able to sound very good, anyway could they really beat my iphone4 in terms of pure SQ? I do not known.
 
I would prefer to do not consider "exotic" products like sflo2, hifiman. 
 
Anyone would help me thinking about my gordian knot?
 
Thank you all and sorry for my poor english.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

Hi all - congratulation for this great forum!
 
I definitely do not have 1000$.
In any case I have the same doubt: which is the best DAP to feed my panasonic HJE900 without amp (I only would like to carry 1 device)?
 
Please consider I already have a iphone4 as main mobile (CirrusLogic DAC, average board layout, almost decent SQ... nothing more that an acceptable SQ) and I usually use apple lossless format.
 
I would like to achieve a quantifiable benefit switching to a new source :>
 
I'm studying a used ipod video 5.5 80gb... to be used rockboxed with flac (without mods or amps); could it be a real upgrade to my iphone4? I do not think so.
I'm also informing about the cowon D2/S9 and the sony X and A series... probably all of them are able to sound very good, anyway could they really beat my iphone4 in terms of pure SQ? I do not known.
 
I would prefer to do not consider "exotic" products like sflo2, hifiman. 
 
Anyone would help me thinking about my gordian knot?
 
Thank you all and sorry for my poor english.

I would recommend creating your own thread, you will get many more answers.
 
A rockboxed iPod 5.5 gen will probably not sound better than your iPhone 4. The iPhone 4 is a pretty good DAP; I don't think your headphones are at the point where you need to worry that much about your source. The main reason you may want to get a seperate DAP is for EQ options. In that case, go for a Cowon player; a properly EQ'ed Cowon player will probably sound better than your iPhone 4. If you are willing to EQ and tweak the sound, a Cowon player is the way to go; if not, upgrade your headphones before your source.

 

[neeverr]

ciao Violinvirtuoso, thanks for your feedback.
 
Imho my panasonic HJE900 are not so bad.
 
In any case I get your point: it seems to be difficult to find out a portable dap that sound relevantly better than iphone4 (with the HJE900 and without any separated amp).
 
thanks again
 
 

 

[Danneq]

Quote:

Older MP3-players are getting interesting for me, the JVC player looks absolutely sweet. Maybe I'll just buy it for a little personal collection. For daily use it's not an option because last month I got ALL my music in flac, because I have a lot music I don't consider going back to mp3.

The SanDisk Sansa players are very good and durable, despite looking fragile. My View (not as good sounding as the Fuze or Clip) works great after over 2 years.
 
About the JVC, you should try it out. You might be surprised at how good it sounds when tweaking the EQ a bit. It is the best sounding unamped MP3 player I've ever heard.

 

[Old_Snake]

OP: Since you have a huge budget, you can also afford the best tech that is out there. I don't intend to hijack but rather than creating the same thread,
 
I'd like to add: what portable players support 24 bit / 96 khz flac? 
 
Cheers.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

OP: Since you have a huge budget, you can also afford the best tech that is out there. I don't intend to hijack but rather than creating the same thread,
 
I'd like to add: what portable players support 24 bit / 96 khz flac? 
 
Cheers.

The only portable player that supports true 24/96 bit material is the Hifiman HM-801 and the HM-602. Rockboxed players accept it, but downgrade it to 16 bit.