[Magick Man]

It's still less then the price with the electrostats. SR-007 + quality amp = $4000-5000 or more...SR-009 + the well regarded Blue Hawaii or Thunderbolt electrostat amp runs over $10k. 

No need to go that high into the clouds.

Used SR-007 - $1200+
New SR-507 - $1050
Decent used amp - $600+
or Woo WEE (which I also own and like) - $500

You can get into very good stats for under two grand, and that's not counting the ESP-950 for $650, which still sounds great despite the fact it feels kinda chintzy.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

Used SR-007 - $1200+
New SR-507 - $1050
 

Actually you can buy a brand new 507 (being the top of the Lambda line) for around $800 and for the mentioned price of a used SR-007 for $1200+ where? The cheapest I've seen on ebay and the F/S section starts from $1600/700.
 
Sorry I have to say for the mentioned genres where you stated electrostats perfect really well, hands down the HD800>SR-507. Yeah the SR-507 sounds very pinpoint to neutral and fast, it sounds boring otherwise, the HD800 makes it sound very fun and best sounding with vocal music as it's quite forward with the treble, with  the SR-507 does not bring involvement or emotion when one is listening to classic music, despite these two huge differences both the HD800 and SR-507 does not belong in the same sentence because both sound very different.
 
Basshead's will be disappointed if they listen to dubstep on the HD800's.
 
BTW, I see you own the HE300's, Hifiman's entry level  dynamic headphone, how does it compare to the D7k, I wouldn't mind buying one and just mod it by transplanting T50RP drivers into it.

 

[Magick Man]

I've seen several 007 Mk1s between $1200-1500 in the FS/FT section. Problem is they're sold and you now can't see what the seller was originally asking. I paid $1100 for mine at an estate sale, SRM-717 included. All you have to do is look around a little.

Sorry, I think the SR-507 is superior to the HD800, which has always sounded shrill and overly bright to me, no matter what amp I tried.

HE-300s are weird. They're very good with acoustic material, better than cans over twice their price, but with most other types of music they're merely average.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

I've seen several 007 Mk1s between $1200-1500 in the FS/FT section. Problem is they're sold and you now can't see what the seller was originally asking. I paid $1100 for mine at an estate sale, SRM-717 included. All you have to do is look around a little.
Sorry, I think the SR-507 is superior to the HD800, which has always sounded shrill and overly bright to me, no matter what amp I tried.
HE-300s are weird. They're very good with acoustic material, better than cans over twice their price, but with most other types of music they're merely average.

Lucky you...
 
It's unfortunate some people are sensitive to bright can's...oh well..

 

[bmiamihk]

Try this - DX100 and any decent Can and presto 24 bit music.

 

[obobskivich]

I agree 100% 
 
There's also the less holy Lambdas, like the 307 and 407, that come down in price fairly dramatically. Amplification doesn't even have to cost a fortune - WEE, SRM-323, E/90, etc are all competent options. Stats are very much an option within $1500, and just because they don't suit one person does not make them universally problematic for all people - it just means one person's opinion is negative (and if we were doing this truly democratically, that one person is over-ruled by the five or six people who disagree). 
 
If you go entirely used/vintage, you can potentially even get out the door for under $500. My ESP/10 system is an example of that, and there's plenty of people who find STAXEN or ESP/9s in similar circumstances (the ESP/10 seems very rare for some reason; iirc my system's serial number is under 1k, so perhaps it was a relatively limited production run?). If you demand turn-key, the ESP/950, or SRS-2170/3170 systems are a no-brainer. 
Quote:

No need to go that high into the clouds.
Used SR-007 - $1200+
New SR-507 - $1050
Decent used amp - $600+
or Woo WEE (which I also own and like) - $500
You can get into very good stats for under two grand, and that's not counting the ESP-950 for $650, which still sounds great despite the fact it feels kinda chintzy.

 

[kiteki]

I sold an SRM-300 amp and SR-404 Signature for ~$600 used, not sure where they stack up in the STAX hierarchy though.

 

[RBNYC2]

This is kind of a random comment but somewhat relevant...Does anyone else think that the Denon dk000 series gets way too much praise on this site?
 
I've always been a fan of accurate, musical headphones that faithfully represent the recording, but after reading thread upon thread of high praise for these, I convinced myself that what I have been missing in life is a pair of bass-heavy, extremely full-sounding cans that I can have fun with from time to time. So, I purchased a pair of d5000's last week. Given the price and the reviews, I had pretty high expectations....this sums up my initial reaction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O1hM-k3aUY
 
Bloated bass, weak midrange, and highs that are decent but nothing to write home about, going to send them back. I can't seem to find anything with great lows/highs but no recessed midrange (that isn't in the $1000+ range). For comparison, I also bought a pair of HD600's, and I have my SRH940's. I liked the HD600's, but I think they're kind of similar to my SRH940's, so I'm debating whether it's worth it to keep them or not. I have not yet tried any of the orthodynamics--does any think that these might provide the kind of upgrade I'm looking for? I've been a bit hesitant to try them because I have the Grado 325is and I don't really like them--basically not as full sounding as I like. And, I'm worried the orthodynamics might have a similar sound signature--this might be an incorrect assumption on my part though. Any other recommendations would be great too. 
 
edit: In retrospect, this might have been a bit harsh. The denon's aren't that bad depending on your choice of music, I just don't think they live up to the hype.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

This is kind of a random comment but somewhat relevant...Does anyone else think that the Denon dk000 series gets way too much praise on this site?
 
 

Like the ATH-M50's? I think so, but opinions is opinions, generally based on a persons experience but a lot of people just read off review's and base there opinion solely from that. How most people see D2k's as good value for there sound especially for there bass, I don't. If I had to choose one out of the D2/5/7k series I'd choose the 5 and mod it as the D5k is a balance between and the D2k and D7k's sound and I've listened to all three. 
 
Since most of the mentioned Orthos here (excluding Fostex) are priced at a point where it is not a $100-200 headphone your playing with, the offerings from Hifiman and Audeze get a lot of praise due to there value and sound, but to bring the best out of most Orthos, if not all Orthos you will need a relatively decent amp/dac setup to let them shine most. Also with certain tube amp's there is a dampening factor with Orthos that you need to be aware of as it might not power it properly or hugely mismatching signature which could make it sound worse....but that's a whole different story for another thread.

 

[swbf2cheater]

Its very important to do your research and really figure out what type of sound you want.  I am super picky and my favorite rig might not please you.  Just make sure to learn what type of sound is offered by any of those possible rigs.  The HE500 and LCD2 have piss poor soundstaging in my opinion, they are made for clarity needs, the LCD2 for example has crystal clear and potent bass with excellent clarity everywhere.  Since it does not offer a wide sound and happens to have excellent imaging and stage depth, you want to find a dac and amp that have similar qualities ( known to have great depth and imaging ).   Rigs like the Dx1000, HD650 and HD800 require large spacious rigs all around or else its really a waste.  My point is that the possible choices listed on the first page all point to very different sound presentations, so it is vital to choose which sound suits your preferences best.  
 
If you go the HD800/JVC/HD650 route, look to amps that offer great soundstaging first or else its a total waste: The Apex Butte, Asgard, Beta22 and such.  If you go the HE500 or LCD2 Route, get something powerful and clear.  Didn't enjoy the Lyr at all, side by side I thought the Butte was more clear and had better imaging, so yet again it would be the better choice for the LCD2s great stage depth.  Cables are the least of your worries.  My $2.99 Monoprice RCA and 3.5mm cables sound identical to my $50 braided interconnect that someone made for me and my $380 Stingher RCA cable interconnect.  Best of Luck with whatever you decide on if you haven't already.  You really can't go wrong with good Dacs like the E10, Bifrost Odac and Music Streamer, they are all great.  Dacs are easy to find. These are just my opinions, take them or leave them.  
 
-mike

 

[RBNYC2]

Quote:

Since most of the mentioned Orthos here (excluding Fostex) are priced at a point where it is not a $100-200 headphone your playing with, the offerings from Hifiman and Audeze get a lot of praise due to there value and sound, but to bring the best out of most Orthos, if not all Orthos you will need a relatively decent amp/dac setup to let them shine most. Also with certain tube amp's there is a dampening factor with Orthos that you need to be aware of as it might not power it properly or hugely mismatching signature which could make it sound worse....but that's a whole different story for another thread.

 
How would you compare the sound of the HifiMan and Audeze to the HD600? I've been listening to the HD600 for a few hours now, and the more I listen to it the more I like it.
 
In case anyone cares, here's my impressions of the HD600:
When paired with tubes, I found that the HD600 had a really great sense of presence, clarity, impact, and fullness, especially in the midrange. They seem to be picky though, because they sounded significantly worse when I tried them with my solid state amp. I think I like them a lot more than the HD650--I prefer their neutrality and balance. They have a slight brightness in the highs that I don't remember the HD650's having, similar to the SRH940's highs. However, the HD600's are more engaging and I enjoy the slight edge in the highs. Speaking of the SRH940's, I am finding the HD600 to have a much more forward/present midrange, with the Shures sounding recessed in comparison. Vocals are really forward on these. Overall, they are an energetic pair of headphones that I'd use when I want to really turn up the volume and feel the music, with the SRH940's being more laid back. However, in many ways I see the two as the open and closed versions of the same headphones.  
 
I've never heard an orthodynamic headphone, or an electrostatic one either for that matter. Do they have a completely different sound altogether, or is it somewhat comparable? I've read lots of reviews, but they start to all sound the same after a while, and it's hard to trust a random user who may have very different tastes. I agree with several of your opinions though, so I'm interested to hear what you think. 

 

[obobskivich]

This is kind of a random comment but somewhat relevant...Does anyone else think that the Denon dk000 series gets way too much praise on this site?

I've always been a fan of accurate, musical headphones that faithfully represent the recording, but after reading thread upon thread of high praise for these, I convinced myself that what I have been missing in life is a pair of bass-heavy, extremely full-sounding cans that I can have fun with from time to time. So, I purchased a pair of d5000's last week. Given the price and the reviews, I had pretty high expectations....this sums up my initial reaction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O1hM-k3aUY

Bloated bass, weak midrange, and highs that are decent but nothing to write home about, going to send them back. I can't seem to find anything with great lows/highs but no recessed midrange (that isn't in the $1000+ range). For comparison, I also bought a pair of HD600's, and I have my SRH940's. I liked the HD600's, but I think they're kind of similar to my SRH940's, so I'm debating whether it's worth it to keep them or not. I have not yet tried any of the orthodynamics--does any think that these might provide the kind of upgrade I'm looking for? I've been a bit hesitant to try them because I have the Grado 325is and I don't really like them--basically not as full sounding as I like. And, I'm worried the orthodynamics might have a similar sound signature--this might be an incorrect assumption on my part though. Any other recommendations would be great too. 

edit: In retrospect, this might have been a bit harsh. The denon's aren't that bad depending on your choice of music, I just don't think they live up to the hype.

I think the Denon are popular because they appeal to a wide range of tastes - they don't do anything abhorrent, and they're reasonably comfortable. I'm personally not a fan, but I do understand the appeal. They're "good." I would agree that more or less every headphone (and any other audio product) does not live up to the "hype" - people love to banter on about "night and day differences" and "dramatic improvements in imaging, soundstage, tighter bass, and better clarity" after doing anything and everything to their equipment (from having it blessed by a shaman to completely replacing every component and getting experimental surgery to transplant bat ears onto them).

There's plenty of cans that will provide quality bass (but not tons of impact), and good mids/treble though. You will not, however, get Denon/Ultrasone bass impact, and perfectly leveled mids and treble.

Some cans I'd suggest trying, in no particular order:
AKG 70x
Kenwood KH-K1000
Sennheiser HD 580/600/650 (looks like you already did one of these).

I wouldn't put the SR-325 into the decision process; it's a Grado after all.

Basically, figure out what you didn't like about the HD 600, and move from there.

I've never heard an orthodynamic headphone, or an electrostatic one either for that matter. Do they have a completely different sound altogether, or is it somewhat comparable? I've read lots of reviews, but they start to all sound the same after a while, and it's hard to trust a random user who may have very different tastes. I agree with several of your opinions though, so I'm interested to hear what you think. 

I feel that my 'stats (which I haven't heard or ever used :rolleyes:, despite having owned them for years) are most similar to my HD 580s. Less bass impact, more extension, and better overall fidelity (they're quicker, cleaner, and more dynamic). Sound-staging is relatively similar - most of my other dynamics have a wider stage (this is not to say that dynamics in general have a wider stage; I like "soundstage club" 'phones). They're different due to the speed and low distortion, they're similar in that you're still listening to the same music and it doesn't sound dramatically colored/altered (it's not like say, the SR-325 or ATH-ESW9, which throw their own "spin" on whatever they're playing).

This only applies to the Koss ESPs though - I haven't owned any of the STAXen; I have consistently read in reviews that the SR-Lambda (and it's descendants) has less bass and is more neutral, but I couldn't say for sure. The older ESPs lack the treble energy of many headphones (dynamic or electrostatic), but they're also relatively hard to find so I wouldn't worry about them. This isn't along the same lines as something like the ESW9 where the treble can be "muffled" or "recessed" - it's still a stat and it still comes through clear as a bell.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

 
How would you compare the sound of the HifiMan and Audeze to the HD600? I've been listening to the HD600 for a few hours now, and the more I listen to it the more I like it.
 
In case anyone cares, here's my impressions of the HD600:
When paired with tubes, I found that the HD600 had a really great sense of presence, clarity, impact, and fullness, especially in the midrange. They seem to be picky though, because they sounded significantly worse when I tried them with my solid state amp. I think I like them a lot more than the HD650--I prefer their neutrality and balance. They have a slight brightness in the highs that I don't remember the HD650's having, similar to the SRH940's highs. However, the HD600's are more engaging and I enjoy the slight edge in the highs. Speaking of the SRH940's, I am finding the HD600 to have a much more forward/present midrange, with the Shures sounding recessed in comparison. Vocals are really forward on these. Overall, they are an energetic pair of headphones that I'd use when I want to really turn up the volume and feel the music, with the SRH940's being more laid back. However, in many ways I see the two as the open and closed versions of the same headphones.  
 
I've never heard an orthodynamic headphone, or an electrostatic one either for that matter. Do they have a completely different sound altogether, or is it somewhat comparable? I've read lots of reviews, but they start to all sound the same after a while, and it's hard to trust a random user who may have very different tastes. I agree with several of your opinions though, so I'm interested to hear what you think. 

 
The HD580 is basically the same as the HD600 just with a newer grill and headband design, they sound almost identical as the HD580 are discontinued for this reason. The HD650 is another type of beast and sound different to the HD580/600 but has a slight similarity with both being neutral. Ortho's as mentioned don't have a huge soundstage (this means poorer imaging) but they are very musical (LCD2) to listen to. A lot of people claim that the LCD2 are neutral but with a luscious bass thump, it goes deep, real deep when needed to. Compared to to my HD600 when it was still in one piece, the HD600 were bit more neutral then my LCD2', in terms of quality, the LCD2 is leaps ahead of the HD600/650 from what I've heard. I haven't heard the Hifiman HE-500 that is well regarded here, so I'm grabbing the recommendation that others give it to you.
 
Electrostat's are on a whole different level. As obobskivich explained above, instead of use of a coil, magnet and thin plastic/mylar coated membrane to produce sound frequencies, electrostat's have no moving parts, coil or magnet's, instead it has a single round flat ultra thing electrostat membrane that when is charged up by electron's, it produces sound. Electrostats are fast, can produce detail and accuracy according to the original recording on a whole different level compared to dynamic headphones. Stat's can be described as "lean" or "bright" sometimes and have less bass production then its dynamic or ortho cousins. Depending on your music taste and what you prefer, coloration to the sound for it to be fun and musical to listen to or accuracy, fast revealing details maintaining close to a flat line on the spectrum graph; natural, the way its supposed to sound from the recording. Most electrostat's (upper range models by Stax) or just the ESP950 by Koss are quite expensive, the ESP950 being the cheapest.
 
Do note that some high-end, mid range lower end electrostat's don't compare with flagship orthos or dynamics for example, it's once you move up the chain of stats things start to get much more expensive, but in the end it really depends on what you prefer and the limitation of your budget to spend. 
 
The best approach to before spending big amounts of $$$ on headphones when your buying your first is to and audition them, listen to them and compare them, reading review's most of the time on forums such as here is quite tidious and causes confusion because what one user will say about a headphone will not apply to the next user, everyone has different tastes and expectations, get a good feel of what certain headphones sound like, before making a purchase.

 

[Dubstep Girl]

to the denon comments:
never heard the d5k, but heres my experience with the d2k
 
i liked my d2000s alot, i think they're popular because like me, i enjoyed them because they go so well with so many different genres, have crazy sub-bass similar to that of car subs and are comfy good all-rounders. however, when i owned them, i only picked them up for rap/hiphop and enjoyed music primarily out of my hd 650s due to their refined sound.
 
i think d2000s do have their shortcomings, the mids/lows/highs where all too separated and they didn't flow well together as much as they could, the bass was awesome, but not as controlled as other headphones in its price range (beyers), the mids where slightly recessed (but not overly so), they weren't as detailed as my akg or senn, and the highs where harsh at louder volumes.  but i loved them because they're very musical and loved their bass more than anything, they went low and hit hard.
 
ultimately i upgraded to the d7000 with the lawton mod and that fixed all the problems with the d2k 

 

[drez]

Quote:

to the denon comments:
never heard the d5k, but heres my experience with the d2k
 
i liked my d2000s alot, i think they're popular because like me, i enjoyed them because they go so well with so many different genres, have crazy sub-bass similar to that of car subs and are comfy good all-rounders. however, when i owned them, i only picked them up for rap/hiphop and enjoyed music primarily out of my hd 650s due to their refined sound.
 
i think d2000s do have their shortcomings, the mids/lows/highs where all too separated and they didn't flow well together as much as they could, the bass was awesome, but not as controlled as other headphones in its price range (beyers), the mids where slightly recessed (but not overly so), they weren't as detailed as my akg or senn, and the highs where harsh at louder volumes.  but i loved them because they're very musical and loved their bass more than anything, they went low and hit hard.
 
ultimately i upgraded to the d7000 with the lawton mod and that fixed all the problems with the d2k 

 
This is very interesting - your point about the lows/mids/highs not flowing together was precisely the impression I had when I tested these years ago in an audio store.  They did not seem tonally cohesive, which was enough for me personally not to be bothered to properly evaluate them.