[WLC-1989]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to this forum, but given the detailed responses I've already found, this seems the ideal place to get advice about an audio upgrade I hope to undertake. I'm in no way an expert when it comes to this, so please bear with me.

At the moment I am currently using the latest HD-audio codec courtesy of Realtek. I did purchase a X-Fi Xtrememusic but experienced SCP and other problems; thus, I am back to integrated audio for the time being. As a consequence of this, I'm in the market for a new soundcard, as well as a new pair of headphones. After reading up on the topic, I've decided on the Sennheiser HD595s (50-Ohm), but I'm unable to decide on a soundcard.

'Gaming' is not a particular hobby of mine, so I'm sure any of the dedicated soundcards discussed on this forum would be sufficient for this purpose. I primarily listen to music and watch films, so the emphasis lies there when choosing.

As I have had problems with the X-Fi, I've decided to overlook the Prelude and higher-end Creative models. Any speakers I choose to buy in the future will be 2.0 (or perhaps 2.1), so I'm assuming that opens up my choices to the E-MU 0404 and other cards of a similar vein.

So to recap: I need a soundcard (costing no more than around £80-£90) which is able to make the HD595s worth their cost.

Thus far, I've come across the following cards in my price-range, excluding Creative's offerings:

- Asus Xonar DX
- Auzentech X-Plosion 7.1
- ESI Juli@
- E-MU 0404

I've been unable to find a direct comparison of the DX, the Juli@ and the 0404, whilst the Auzentech X-Plosion seems to belong to a previous generation of soundcards altogether. Furthermore, many of the features provided with these cards (particularly with the 0404) seem aimed at recording more than output, and thus beyond my needs. As you can probably tell, then, I'm a little confused as to what I should choose.

Would you gracious audiophiles help out a newcomer by advising on which of the above cards (or another you can recommend) provides the best sound-quality output for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray audio, as well as RedBook and DVD-Audio (24-bit), both of which I use?

Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[sgrossklass]

The X-Plosion is CMI8770 based... no good for analog out.

Audiotrak's Prodigy 7.1 Hifi should be in your price range, too (though one never knows with UK pricing...), as well as the venerable M-Audio Revolution 5.1.

The Juli@ and, IIRC, the 0404 are not intended for headphone driving, they have line outs only.

The Asus cards are high quality hardware throughout, but do note that judging by the measurements I've seen, the (rebranded) CMedia Oxygen HD chips used have no provisions for native 44.1 kHz support and resample instead. While resampling quality certainly is a lot better than in the EMU10kX cards of yore, us picky audiophiles would prefer to use hardware resampling nonetheless.

BTW, the current 50-ohm HD595s seem to be optimized for use on medium-impedance outputs, they're not too unhappy about like 100 ohms of output impedance. I would expect the outputs on sound cards to be in the 0 ohm to 47 ohm range, so don't be surprised if the cans are a little lean on the bottom. I would also suggest performing the mod suggested by (I think) hwc, which reduces reflections inside the earcups' back seemingly responsible for the oft-lamented narrow soundstage.

 

[WLC-1989]

Thank you for your response, sgrossklass. I just took a look at the M-Audio card you referred to, but can find no information about it on the official website. Is it part of a discontinued range? I ask because I am currently using Vista x64, where driver availability is limited and a seemingly endless supply of x64 driver bugs necessitate frequent updates.

As for the Asus cards; do you feel that the lack of native 44.1kHz support makes the Prodigy 7.1 HiFi the better card? I read that some people experienced problems with higher frequencies when using the Prodigy HiFi, and thus bought new OPAMPs for it. Assuming I were to compare the audible sound quality of the Audiotrak and the Xonar, which would you expect to come out on top?

Furthermore, is the ability to change OPAMPs in the Audiotrak (such as with the OPA2107AP, recommended in this thread) a particularly useful feature, in respect to getting the perfect output for the HD595s?

 

[joshd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrossklass /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Asus cards are high quality hardware throughout, but do note that judging by the measurements I've seen, the (rebranded) CMedia Oxygen HD chips used have no provisions for native 44.1 kHz support and resample instead. While resampling quality certainly is a lot better than in the EMU10kX cards of yore, us picky audiophiles would prefer to use hardware resampling nonetheless.

First time I've ever seen anyone say that, could you link some pages on this? (Just curious since I have one XD )

 

[Brando]

I'm listening to a Xonar D2X right now and it's set to 44.1mhz 16 bit. You can set it to any of the different rates at any time.

 

[joshd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm listening to a Xonar D2X right now and it's set to 44.1mhz 16 bit. You can set it to any of the different rates at any time.

Well yeah you can certainly select 44.1kHz as an output, but I would be interested to see any evidence that it resamples.

 

[j0shimi]

It's a shame you had problems as the Prelude is a fantastic card. I moved from the X-Fi Elite Pro to the Prelude and thankfully Auzentech are often releasing updated drivers, the latest making some very nice improvements.

 

[WLC-1989]

Thanks for the further responses, guys. At the moment, I seem to be down to:

- Asus Xonar DX.
- Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 HiFi

Assuming the 0404, Juli@ etc are inappropriate for my listening needs, which of these two cards can I expect to get:

- The best analogue sound quality from.
- The best driver support.

I'm eager to purchase a soundcard within the next few days, any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Also, am I right in saying that an optical out connector would allow me bit-perfect playback via an amp, if I chose to purchase one at a later date?

 

[Gurck]

I have no experience with the Audiotrak card, but I have a Xonar DX and can give you a quick rundown on stuff you might want to know. It requires auxiliary power from a floppy style connector. It has only one rear input, and that jack doubles as the optical out, limiting your options. It does have pinouts for front panel headphones & mic though, but if your case doesn't have the cables they'll run you ~$10. The packaging is very lean, it comes with only a molex <-> floppy power cable and an optical cable. The drivers are good and very clean. I used to have a Creative card and its drivers were so incredibly bloated that these are like a fresh breeze - although the driver application window is skinned (no other option) and may look tacky depending on your taste. Switching between different modes (5.1 speaker, front panel headphones, dolby digital, etc.) is all done manually through the driver application. I've read that it doesn't do DTS, but I'm really not sure of the implications of that so perhaps someone else can fill you in.

Oh, the sound. I don't have a whole lot of experience, but it sounds miles better than my old Audigy 2. True audiophiles will probably want something better, but for $90 it seems like an excellent value, and if its limitations don't affect you, I'd say go for it.

PS - the M-Audio Revolution 5.1 you asked about above has been discontinued. If you want one you might find one on ebay, make sure to get the 5.1 as I seem to recall it has better DACs than the 7.1.

 

[joshd]

I also have no experience with the Prodigy. The drivers for my D2 (more or less the same) are very nice, work great with Vista and XP. Coming from an A2ZS, the SQ is much improved.

Everything I have read describes the DX, in terms of SQ, as being very very amazing for the price.

 

[sgrossklass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WLC-1989 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for your response, sgrossklass. I just took a look at the M-Audio card you referred to, but can find no information about it on the official website. Is it part of a discontinued range? I ask because I am currently using Vista x64, where driver availability is limited and a seemingly endless supply of x64 driver bugs necessitate frequent updates.

I hadn't checked the M-Audio website recently, but it does seem like the Revos are discontinued. Drivers for 64-bit Vista wouldn't be available any time soon anyway:
M-AUDIO - Drivers and Software Search
Quote:

As for the Asus cards; do you feel that the lack of native 44.1kHz support makes the Prodigy 7.1 HiFi the better card?

Very hard to tell (the Asus does have the better converters, but the Audiotrak card is no slouch in terms of power supply design). It would be for me, given that I don't have the very fastest computer ever and would like to avoid the CPU usage associated with resampling. Then again, I don't have any experience with Audiotrak's Vista 64-bit drivers.
Quote:

Furthermore, is the ability to change OPAMPs in the Audiotrak (such as with the OPA2107AP, recommended in this thread) a particularly useful feature, in respect to getting the perfect output for the HD595s?

Since I have yet to order the card and a nice set of various opamps, I can't really tell.
Quote:

Originally Posted by joshd /img/forum/go_quote.gif First time I've ever seen anyone say that, could you link some pages on this? (Just curious since I have one XD )

Just look for any Xonar D2, D2X or DX review with comprehensive RMAA measurements that are not obviously flawed (I don't remember whether it was an Asus or some other Oxygen HD card, but one review I saw showed signs of clipping on the THD plot - what are you to think about of a review if the "experts" can't even get the levels right?). On the swept IMD measurements, you'll see a marked increase above some 14 kHz or so which is present in 44.1 but not 48 kHz.

Alternatively, why not take some measurements yourself (with current drivers preferably)? You can download a RMAA setup guide written by Asus. Of course you'll want to adapt the sample rates in both RMAA and, when running Vista, the system (Vista doesn't support automagic sample rate switching, as far as I'm informed - how dumb is that?). As a check, test in 24/96 - frequency response should extend comfortably way beyond 20 kHz.

I was skeptical about the Oxygen HD's 44.1 kHz support because the thing uses a single 24.576 MHz crystal only and the publicly available datasheet doesn't lose a word about clock generation at all. If they had implemented a PLL (like seemingly the 0404 and X-Fi have) this would certainly have been worth mentioning.

 

[joshd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrossklass /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alternatively, why not take some measurements yourself (with current drivers preferably)? You can download a RMAA setup guide written by Asus. Of course you'll want to adapt the sample rates in both RMAA and, when running Vista, the system (Vista doesn't support automagic sample rate switching, as far as I'm informed - how dumb is that?). As a check, test in 24/96 - frequency response should extend comfortably way beyond 20 kHz.

The results from this don't really mean much to me. :-/

But I am getting WAY higher (~0.105%) than quoted (0.0004%) THD levels. I'll fiddle some more later, I have stuff to do..

EDIT: It's fine, I had speakers plugged in, but off. Unplug them and it is more normal.

 

[sgrossklass]

I have to correct myself - here's a review of the Xonar DX that shows perfectly fine swept IMD levels at 24/44:
iXBT: Çâóêîâàÿ êàðòà ASUS Xonar DX
Seems like the chip does support 44.1 kHz after all, but current drivers and careful setup are required. Most review writers apparently got that part wrong. (The above review was written by Maxim Liadov, one of the guys behind RMAA.)