[Raptor34]

I was just listening to my only recording of this work, Muti/Philharmonia/EMI. If this recording was on LP or tape, it would be worn out by now, due to excessive usage. I love this work and consider it one of Mr. T's best compositions. Did a search here and found Muti's on all three hits. Muti's/EMI dates back to the early 80's though and I was wondering if anyone can recommend a newer recording with better sonics. I think Muti's will be hard to best though but there are over 40 recording of the work listed at Amazon and Tower and I can't buy them all

 

[BAwig05]

You may have the best with you already. As for sonics, sometimes the music has to speak for itself. It does here.

 

[mbhaub]

This is one of my absolute favorite works, and incredible as it seems, I have every cd version ever released. Good, bad and spectacular.

For the best possible combination of sound and performance, the new Jurowski with the London Philharmonic is tops, no question.

The Muti is one of the very best, and performance wise is sensational. The Chailly on London is great sounding and a great performance, too, but not quite as electrifying as the Muti.

The Pletnev just isn't that great -- he rushes it. And any conductor who dares to tamper with and mess up the orchestration or make any cuts is automatically assigned to the bad category: Temirkanov tops this list. That's the problem with Jansons, too. The only other newer recording worth consideration is on Koss with Raymond Leppard and the Indianapolis SO. Very fine sound, but the orchestra sure isn't the London Phil.

So go for Jurowski: you won't be disappointed.

 

[BAwig05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Muti is one of the very best, and performance wise is sensational. The Chailly on London is great sounding and a great performance, too, but not quite as electrifying as the Muti. The Pletnev just isn't that great -- he rushes it. And any conductor who dares to tamper with and mess up the orchestration or make any cuts is automatically assigned to the bad category.

I have to agree here, and add something as well.

Pletnev rushes a lot of things. You can find this perfomance at budget price on the "Trio" label, in a set which contains all of PT's complete "tone poems". He tends to rush everything, which means that lots of music fits on three discs. It also means that everything sounds hurried in a "we have to fit it all in!" kind of way. So. while the other performances are interesting, and the pieces hard to find, the Manfred is the dud in the set.

 

[Raptor34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is one of my absolute favorite works, and incredible as it seems, I have every cd version ever released. Good, bad and spectacular. For the best possible combination of sound and performance, the new Jurowski with the London Philharmonic is tops, no question. The Muti is one of the very best, and performance wise is sensational. The Chailly on London is great sounding and a great performance, too, but not quite as electrifying as the Muti. The Pletnev just isn't that great -- he rushes it. And any conductor who dares to tamper with and mess up the orchestration or make any cuts is automatically assigned to the bad category: Temirkanov tops this list. That's the problem with Jansons, too. The only other newer recording worth consideration is on Koss with Raymond Leppard and the Indianapolis SO. Very fine sound, but the orchestra sure isn't the London Phil. So go for Jurowski: you won't be disappointed.

Just ordered the Jurowski. Can't wait to hear it.

 

[zotjen]

Quote:

For the best possible combination of sound and performance, the new Jurowski with the London Philharmonic is tops, no question.

Interestingly enough, I bought this recording a couple of weeks ago. Of course I haven't played it yet, but at least it looks like I picked a good choice.

 

[DarkAngel]

I have kept 3 versions in my collection:
Muti/EMI (now in very cheap Brilliant Classics Tchaikovsky set)
Markevitch/EMI Great Conductors of 20th Century (LSO 1963)
Silvestri/BBC Legends

This is easy piece to muck up and sound bland in wrong hands and many otherwise very good Tchaikovsky conductors have bland Manfreds, Jansons/Chandos perfect example. Also strangely during organ passage at conclusion of work there a a couple spots where symphony seems to end only to pause and continue on...........

The Markevitch Manfred is from the same studio sessions of the famous 1-6 symphonies still being sold on two Phillips Duo Cds, no room for extra pieces which tragically kept this OOP for long time, unfortunately the Markevitch edition I list above must be bought used and sells for more than retail because of the excellent Manfred and La mer.


MB has me looking at that new Jurowski Manfred........

 

[DarkAngel]

MB
Are you familiar with the Markevitch and Silvestri Manfreds?

You did say you have every CD version

 

[mbhaub]

Yes -- at least I'm pretty sure I do. Pretty sick, huh? This work has always fascinated me, I bought the score when still in my teens, and studied it to death.

Markevitch: I have to say, I was someone disappointed with this one. I really enjoy his symphony cycle, so just expected more. It's not bad, but just not my favorite.
There are two Silvestri's: the Philharmonia version on Testament is really very excellent. The Bournemouth version on BBC is rather dreadful. The organ sounds like an electronic Hammond. Both suffer from dated sound. I think Manfred has gone thru the same problems Mahler had in the 60s: orchestras just didn't know it very well and most players had never seen it before. Nowadays, while still not standard rep, it's at least familiar, and more conductors seem to know it and that's why more recent recordings seem overall superior to the older ones.

Lorin Maazel got the ball rolling with the first truly complete, modern, stereo version, which I have a soft spot in my heart for, but compared to more recent ones, its not at the top of my list. Shortly after that, both Previn and Ormandy made fine recordings, but the Previn sound is dated and the Ormandy, in spectacular analog sound, didn't show the maestro at his best. By then he was older, and had never conducted the work before the recordings.

There is another modern version that easily compares to Jurowski, and that's Andrew Litton's superb version on Virgin. But since it's not currently available I didn't offer it as a suggestion. Should it appear, it's a real keeper. Another one that I enjoy hugely is the Ashkenazy on London, but currently only available on Decca-Australia.

I won't go on anymore, other than to vent frustration at two of the biggest lost opportunities of all time: both Bernstein and Karajan made excellent Tchaikovsky cycles. Why, oh why, didn't someone have them do Manfred?

 

[DarkAngel]

MB
Jurowski has been ordered, what about Toscanini?
Some really like the 1949 RCA or the early 1940s Music & Arts Manfred, have you heard these?

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif MB Jurowski has been ordered, what about Toscanini? Some really like the 1949 RCA or the early 1940s Music & Arts Manfred, have you heard these?

Wait........I know the answer, no cuts in the original score allowed therefore Toscanini is out

 

[mbhaub]

Well not exactly. It was the ancient RCA Toscanini that I first owned, and I wouldn't without it. I just can't recommend it to someone who wants a great sounding Manfred. The Toscanini is very riveting, at it also is one of the best demonstrations (if one is needed) that orchestral playing 50+ years ago was just as brilliant as it is today.

The RCA is a studio job, the M&A is a live performance, and maybe just a teeny bit ragged in a few spots, but it is so exciting, who cares? The 2-disk set has scintillating performances of the 1st piano concerto (w/ Horowitz) and a thrilling account of the Pathetique.. It's all from 1940/1 so be warned about the sound.

Another historical version that commands attention is the Paul Kletzki...but dang it, cut after cut!

 

[Raptor34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes -- at least I'm pretty sure I do. Pretty sick, huh? This work has always fascinated me, I bought the score when still in my teens, and studied it to death. Markevitch: I have to say, I was someone disappointed with this one. I really enjoy his symphony cycle, so just expected more. It's not bad, but just not my favorite. There are two Silvestri's: the Philharmonia version on Testament is really very excellent. The Bournemouth version on BBC is rather dreadful. The organ sounds like an electronic Hammond. Both suffer from dated sound. I think Manfred has gone thru the same problems Mahler had in the 60s: orchestras just didn't know it very well and most players had never seen it before. Nowadays, while still not standard rep, it's at least familiar, and more conductors seem to know it and that's why more recent recordings seem overall superior to the older ones. Lorin Maazel got the ball rolling with the first truly complete, modern, stereo version, which I have a soft spot in my heart for, but compared to more recent ones, its not at the top of my list. Shortly after that, both Previn and Ormandy made fine recordings, but the Previn sound is dated and the Ormandy, in spectacular analog sound, didn't show the maestro at his best. By then he was older, and had never conducted the work before the recordings. There is another modern version that easily compares to Jurowski, and that's Andrew Litton's superb version on Virgin. But since it's not currently available I didn't offer it as a suggestion. Should it appear, it's a real keeper. Another one that I enjoy hugely is the Ashkenazy on London, but currently only available on Decca-Australia. I won't go on anymore, other than to vent frustration at two of the biggest lost opportunities of all time: both Bernstein and Karajan made excellent Tchaikovsky cycles. Why, oh why, didn't someone have them do Manfred?

Because Bernstein said the Manfred Symphony was "trash" and never performed or recorded it. IMHO, he was sadly mistaken.

 

[BAwig05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor34 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because Bernstein said the Manfred Symphony was "trash" and never performed or recorded it. IMHO, he was sadly mistaken.

George Szell called the First Piano concerto a pice of S***. He wasn't exactly right either.

Lets keep things in perspective, though. All of Lenny's other Tchaikovsky is excellent

 

[JayG]

Well...Szell wasn't totally off base. Tchaikovsky's 1st PC is certainly enjoyable, and I would say it's well crafted, but it's not exactly the ultimate in sublety or expression. I like to listen to it from time to time, but I consider it a little bit of a guilty pleasure.