[TooNice]

Greetings.

I am looking for a comfortable IEM to use with my laptop (no amplification) for everything (music, movies and games). At the moment I am using a 9 years old MEElec A151 which I like very much (for an IEM), but I am running into some issues and looking to replace it with something else.

In an attempt to better understand what sound signature I am into (*), I started looking for suggestions for budget $20-ish IEMs and at present have the Wan'er and CRA in my shortlist.

(*) As far as I can tell, I am into balanced to balanced leaning bright signature, and when equalising, I tend to boost treble more than bass (no idea if I qualify as a treble head). I briefly tried my friend's BLON-03 which I believe has a V-shape, and while I can see why it would be considered fun, I do think that I prefer something more balanced than that. I also think that I value soundstage and air, though obviously I don't expect too much from $20 IEMs. Given all that I am thinking that perhaps the Wan'er might be a good place to start, and I can complement it with a CRA if I feel like really giving the V-shape another try.

Alternatively, I can currently get the Tri Starsea for a very decent price (under $90). I suspect that I don't have much time to take advantage of the offer. On paper, I actually like what I read (**) about the Starsea based on a few reviews I've seen (*).. but the Starsea has been around for a while (making me wonder if whether it has already been overtaken; or if Tri might have something new to replace it with) and seemingly hasn't gained that many followings, and hard to drive so it is giving me some pause (I don't want to add an amp to my setup).

(** Namely the soundstage and separation in this price range, I think it is considered more balanced than many V shaped IEMs, and the build quality including cable seems to be good.

Thanks.

 

[baskingshark]

Greetings.

I am looking for a comfortable IEM to use with my laptop (no amplification) for everything (music, movies and games). At the moment I am using a 9 years old MEElec A151 which I like very much (for an IEM), but I am running into some issues and looking to replace it with something else.

In an attempt to better understand what sound signature I am into (*), I started looking for suggestions for budget $20-ish IEMs and at present have the Wan'er and CRA in my shortlist.

(*) As far as I can tell, I am into balanced to balanced leaning bright signature, and when equalising, I tend to boost treble more than bass (no idea if I qualify as a treble head). I briefly tried my friend's BLON-03 which I believe has a V-shape, and while I can see why it would be considered fun, I do think that I prefer something more balanced than that. I also think that I value soundstage and air, though obviously I don't expect too much from $20 IEMs. Given all that I am thinking that perhaps the Wan'er might be a good place to start, and I can complement it with a CRA if I feel like really giving the V-shape another try.

Alternatively, I can currently get the Tri Starsea for a very decent price (under $90). I suspect that I don't have much time to take advantage of the offer. On paper, I actually like what I read (**) about the Starsea based on a few reviews I've seen (*).. but the Starsea has been around for a while (making me wonder if whether it has already been overtaken; or if Tri might have something new to replace it with) and seemingly hasn't gained that many followings, and hard to drive so it is giving me some pause (I don't want to add an amp to my setup).

(** Namely the soundstage and separation in this price range, I think it is considered more balanced than many V shaped IEMs, and the build quality including cable seems to be good.

Thanks.

If you are looking for an ultra budget neutral/neutral bright set, check out the Salnotes Zero.
For something a bit better for neutral bright tuning (diminishing returns kick in), but pricier, the next upgrade would be the Dunu Titan S.

The TRI Starsea is a very technical IEM, it has 4 tuning options so it can be tuned via switches to be neutralish to U shaped to V shaped. Even on the bassiest switch setting, it isn't a basshead IEM, and most of the tunings lie towards treble focused tunings. TRI Starsea is very good in technicalities, though some cons are it has driver flex/suction sensation in the ears, and it has a very low impedance of 9ish ohms, so it needs a source with 1 ohm or less output impedance, otherwise the frequency response will be skewed.

My suggestion would be to try a $20 ultra budget IEM first, see if you like the tuning, and if so, then upgrade down the rabbithole. Diminishing returns start to hit hard after that.

 

[TooNice]

If you are looking for an ultra budget neutral/neutral bright set, check out the Salnotes Zero.
For something a bit better for neutral bright tuning (diminishing returns kick in), but pricier, the next upgrade would be the Dunu Titan S.

The TRI Starsea is a very technical IEM, it has 4 tuning options so it can be tuned via switches to be neutralish to U shaped to V shaped. Even on the bassiest switch setting, it isn't a basshead IEM, and most of the tunings lie towards treble focused tunings. TRI Starsea is very good in technicalities, though some cons are it has driver flex/suction sensation in the ears, and it has a very low impedance of 9ish ohms, so it needs a source with 1 ohm or less output impedance, otherwise the frequency response will be skewed.

My suggestion would be to try a $20 ultra budget IEM first, see if you like the tuning, and if so, then upgrade down the rabbithole. Diminishing returns start to hit hard after that.

Thanks, I will stick with the original plan then which is to try a few $20 ultra budget to better know what tuning I like.

If you were to pick a couple of $20 ultra budget, what would they be?

It seems like there are lots of $20 that provides exceptional bang for bucks, and I am trying to to shortlist and compare a few latest / greatest.

The Wan'er I was recently recommended seems to be viewed positively against the Zero, although it seems be be considered neutral-warm so perhaps I might prefer the neutral-bright Zero might be more for me.

 

[baskingshark]

Thanks, I will stick with the original plan then which is to try a few $20 ultra budget to better know what tuning I like.

If you were to pick a couple of $20 ultra budget, what would they be?

It seems like there are lots of $20 that provides exceptional bang for bucks, and I am trying to to shortlist and compare a few latest / greatest.

The Wan'er I was recently recommended seems to be viewed positively against the Zero, although it seems be be considered neutral-warm so perhaps I might prefer the neutral-bright Zero might be more for me.

The Wan Er is warm neutral, and the Salnotes Zero is neutral bright yes (there are other IEMs named Zero from Truthears, BGVP and Tanchjim, we are speaking about the Salnotes Zero in particular).

TBH, if you could afford the coin, getting both is an option to dabble your feet in the budget IEM and see what you prefer? Both sets are really good for 20 bucks, great introductory sets for new ones to the hobby. These 2 have compromises of course, and ain't technical tour de forces, but it is more to see what you prefer in tonality, then perhaps upgrade to a more technical set with a similar tonality down the line.

 

[TooNice]

Thanks for your input again. Would you say that the CRA, which I understand is a strong V shape and considerably different, a bright leaning or warm leaning IEM?

Not sure if I want to buy three cheap IEM atm, but would you say that the Salnotes, Zero, Wan'er and CRA would cover all the basics signature, and from there it should be straightforward to pick the next level up? Also, are those three fairly easy to drive unamplified?

It seems like the ultra-budget category is moving quickly with something promising coming all the time. Is this trend applicable to the $100ish category?

Lastly, going by to the Tri Starsea, what do you mean by driver flex and suction?

Thanks again!

 

[baskingshark]

Thanks for your input again. Would you say that the CRA, which I understand is a strong V shape and considerably different, a bright leaning or warm leaning IEM?

Not sure if I want to buy three cheap IEM atm, but would you say that the Salnotes, Zero, Wan'er and CRA would cover all the basics signature, and from there it should be straightforward to pick the next level up? Also, are those three fairly easy to drive unamplified?

It seems like the ultra-budget category is moving quickly with something promising coming all the time. Is this trend applicable to the $100ish category?

Lastly, going by to the Tri Starsea, what do you mean by driver flex and suction?

Thanks again!

I haven't heard CRA so can't comment on that. But V shaped means an elevated bass and elevated treble (with recessed midrange).

I think the Salnotes Zero is a good option for neutral tuning. Go get a Harman or V-shaped IEM as the other and I think that should cover quite a lot of ground to see what you like. Alternatively, you can get one set and play with EQ (boost treble and bass and midrange and play about).

These are all easy to drive yes, amplification is not truly compulsory.

The best price to performance is in the sub $100 range. Going up to midFI ($100 - 500), you can better sound in general, but diminishing returns kick in. Going to Top-of-the-line (TOTL), which I consider > $1000 USD, is generally bad in returns, you get maybe 10 - 20% improvement from midFI but at 10x the price. So the best sweetspot is generally in MidFI in terms of sonic fidelity, but start at the budget segment first to taste a few sound signatures, then upgrade to MidFI if finances allow, and call it a day thereafter, that's my tip.

Driver flex = crinkling sound in the ear due to a dynamic driver being compressed when you insert an IEM in the ear, usually due to insufficient venting in an IEM (it is related to ear anatomy and type of eartips used too). Generally it is a nuisance, but mostly won't harm the IEM (in general).

 

[TooNice]

The best price to performance is in the sub $100 range. Going up to midFI ($100 - 500), you can better sound in general, but diminishing returns kick in. Going to Top-of-the-line (TOTL), which I consider > $1000 USD, is generally bad in returns, you get maybe 10 - 20% improvement from midFI but at 10x the price. So the best sweetspot is generally in MidFI in terms of sonic fidelity, but start at the budget segment first to taste a few sound signatures, then upgrade to MidFI if finances allow, and call it a day thereafter, that's my tip.

Thanks, that is what I pretty much have in mind. And I am hoping to find something bang for buck in the midFi category later on. My question was whether that are things progressing pretty quickly in the lower mid-fi category (say $100-200 category) at the moment? It seems from my reading that there are new budget IEM contending for the crown every frequently (the Salnotes Zero, from what I've seen is merely 6 months old).

I guess that I would feel a little better potentially missing on a good deal on the Starsea if I know that those things are improving all the time, and by the time I decide to upgrade (I am likely to use my budget headset for quite a period of time), I should have better options even if the Starsea is the kind of IEM that meets my preference.

What would be an example of a good budget Harman IEM? I am weary of the Moondrop Chu as I've read quite a lot of people complaining about it breaking down etc.

 

[baskingshark]

What would be an example of a good budget Harman IEM? I am weary of the Moondrop Chu as I've read quite a lot of people complaining about it breaking down etc.

Decent budget harmanish gear you can read about:
Moondrop Aria 2021
DUNU KIMA
HZSound Heart Mirror Pro
Tripowin Olina Special Edition


Good midFI harmanish gear:
Tanchjim Oxygen
Moondrop KATO

 

[TooNice]

@baskingshark

I have one more question which might be silly, but looking at the Salnotes Zero, I noticed that there is a version which includes a USB-C mic for just a tiny bit more.

But the photo do not really show how everything is attached, and whether the mic is fully detachable. Since I don't need a mic 99.9% of the time, I wouldn't want it if it isn't fully detachable, but on the other hand, I'd be happy paying an extra dollar for it if the mic is just a fully detachable optional accessory. Do you know how mic in IEMs are usually attached? Thanks.

Edit: Nevermind, I got the answer elsewhere (3.5mm without mic or USB-C with mic only).

 

[baskingshark]

@baskingshark

I have one more question which might be silly, but looking at the Salnotes Zero, I noticed that there is a version which includes a USB-C mic for just a tiny bit more.

But the photo do not really show how everything is attached, and whether the mic is fully detachable. Since I don't need a mic 99.9% of the time, I wouldn't want it if it isn't fully detachable, but on the other hand, I'd be happy paying an extra dollar for it if the mic is just a fully detachable optional accessory. Do you know how mic in IEMs are usually attached? Thanks.

Edit: Nevermind, I got the answer elsewhere (3.5mm without mic or USB-C with mic only).

Generally I would avoid mic cables for music listening, as from experience they tend to be a point of failure down the line. And also the mic side has a bit more resistance than the non-mic side.

But I understand that a lot of lay consumers want their cable to be multi purpose for calls and online meetings, but personally I would just get a second mic cable for this, and keep the un-mic one with the IEM. Cables can be gotten for like $8 USD (eg NiceHCK 8 core copper cable) which are very nice haptically, with minimal microphonics and low resistances, so personally I think the extra 8 bucks is worth an investment.

 

[TooNice]

Generally I would avoid mic cables for music listening, as from experience they tend to be a point of failure down the line. And also the mic side has a bit more resistance than the non-mic side.

But I understand that a lot of lay consumers want their cable to be multi purpose for calls and online meetings, but personally I would just get a second mic cable for this, and keep the un-mic one with the IEM. Cables can be gotten for like $8 USD (eg NiceHCK 8 core copper cable) which are very nice haptically, with minimal microphonics and low resistances, so personally I think the extra 8 bucks is worth an investment.

Thanks. Would you say that the original 7hz Zero's cable to be pretty ideal for the IEM? I guess the quality is a given since that is what most reviews use, but is it widely considered comfortable to the point that there is no real reason to replace it?

Seems to me like I have two options: 1. Get the original 7hz Zero cable, then find a USB-C cable with mic that is compatible later, or 2. Get the USB-C cable with mic, then find a cable compatible with the 7hz Zero.

Since most reviews are based on the Zero with the original cable, I am quite inclined to just go for that, then figure out the USB-C option later. On the other hand, I suspect it is easier to find a good quality 3.5mm cable without mic, than a USB-C cable with mic, at a decent price. I had a quick check on Amazon JP (as I am in Japan) and there are tons of 0.78mm 2pin cables (though I can't say what is the comfort and quality compared to the original cable), but I actually can't find an USB-C with mic adapter at all (not sure if I am not using the right search keyword).

 

[baskingshark]

Thanks. Would you say that the original 7hz Zero's cable to be pretty ideal for the IEM? I guess the quality is a given since that is what most reviews use, but is it widely considered comfortable to the point that there is no real reason to replace it?

Seems to me like I have two options: 1. Get the original 7hz Zero cable, then find a USB-C cable with mic that is compatible later, or 2. Get the USB-C cable with mic, then find a cable compatible with the 7hz Zero.

Since most reviews are based on the Zero with the original cable, I am quite inclined to just go for that, then figure out the USB-C option later. On the other hand, I suspect it is easier to find a good quality 3.5mm cable without mic, than a USB-C cable with mic, at a decent price. I had a quick check on Amazon JP (as I am in Japan) and there are tons of 0.78mm 2pin cables (though I can't say what is the comfort and quality compared to the original cable), but I actually can't find an USB-C with mic adapter at all (not sure if I am not using the right search keyword).

The Salnotes Zero's cable is quite serviceable in my book, I don't think you need to get aftermarket cables TBH.
In fact, for the Zero's low cost, I wouldn't get a cable that costs more than it!

 

[TooNice]

The Salnotes Zero's cable is quite serviceable in my book, I don't think you need to get aftermarket cables TBH.
In fact, for the Zero's low cost, I wouldn't get a cable that costs more than it!

Thanks. Could you please link me a $8 NiceHCK mic cable? I will see if the same model can be found in Japan and at what cost. I think that perhaps I have been looking at the wrong models, because I keep seeing cables that cost as much if not more than the HCK!

Also, are there any well regarded budget 3.5mm replacement cable that you know of?

 

[baskingshark]

Thanks. Could you please link me a $8 NiceHCK mic cable? I will see if the same model can be found in Japan and at what cost. I think that perhaps I have been looking at the wrong models, because I keep seeing cables that cost as much if not more than the HCK!

Also, are there any well regarded budget 3.5mm replacement cable that you know of?

Check out the cables here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000938874310.html
https://shopee.sg/NICEHCK-8-Core-Hi...C16-C10-NICEHCK-NX7-F3-i.148821394.5904542789


Choose 2-pin option. They are frequently on sale, so generally during sales, the prices drop around 2 USD. These are not mic cables, but more for audiophile listening. Very supple, with no microphonics and low resistances on measurements.

Apologies, I don't use mic cables often, so I guess someone else has to advise on a good mic cable.