[setmenu]

I notice with some phones that after removing them and reaquainting my ears with natural ambient sound it is like
removing cotton wool from ears,ah the top end is back!
I know 90% of dicerning listeners want an even balanced
sound,but honestly what systems really provide total neutrality,
recordings certainly do not.
I note that bass has its fans[me too] but what about you treble
fanatics out there?
I read a fair bit about smooth rolled back trebles and unfatiguing
listening but personaly I do not want my music smoothed.
Pherhaps I am just talking waffle here and there are a lot of
headphones/systems out there that have nasty extremes in all
areas and this is generally what is being reffered to and I too
would agree with the criticisms.

I have not listened to much compared to many here!

Pherhaps my perceptions have been warped by Stax,

 

[Dusty Chalk]

CD's only go up so high, dude. Might I recommend SACD, vinyl, or high-rate PCM (DAD or un-watermarked DVD-A).

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally posted by DustyChalk CD's only go up so high, dude. Might I recommend SACD, vinyl, or high-rate PCM (DAD or un-watermarked DVD-A).

Hi
Cd goes to 20k I can hear 20,
and I am aware of the other digital medias extended response,
but out of interest what frequency response does vinyl have?

 

[AuralBliss]

I always prefer treble over bass, this is because, to me, treble (the kind that is all encompassing yet natural) is hard to find in headphones (or speakers) than bass. I really like that high energy sound, treble assult, if you will.

I believe vinyl freq. limit is 50khz, not sure though.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally posted by AuralBliss I always prefer treble over bass, this is because, to me, treble (the kind that is all encompassing yet natural) is hard to find in headphones (or speakers) than bass. I really like that high energy sound, treble assult, if you will. I believe vinyl freq. limit is 50khz, not sure though.

yes I agree natural,smooth treble can realy give an adrenaline rush with the right material.
And finding a set up that does it well can be difficult!
My Stax system has its limitations, but with well recorded
cymbols you can just eat that sound

50k!!wow

 

[Nezer]

Quote:

Originally posted by setmenu Hi Cd goes to 20k I can hear 20, and I am aware of the other digital medias extended response, but out of interest what frequency response does vinyl have?

Sure, CD's go to 20k (22.05k to be exact), but everything after about 15k is poorly represented. You can work-around this with extensive filtering but you'll never get those frequencies accuratly represented because they just aren't there as a matter of digital sampling.

If you can cleary hear 20k then you would also clearly hear how horrible the upper overtones sound particularly in female vocals, violins and other instruments with high-frequency overtones. Even some male vocals sound god-awful (like Sting).

As a rule of thumb with digital sampling, *frequencies* can be represented at 1/2 the sample rate but *amplitude* of frequencies are only accuratly sampled at about 1/3rd the sample rate. I personally maintain that the perfect sample rate for human ears is 96k (192 is absolute overkill IMHO). I also think the depth should be 32 bits as the amount of headroom offered makes it nearly impossible to overload. That said 24-bits is a *significant* improvement over 16-bits but 32-bits sets the noise floor so low that only Superman could hear it.

 

[DanG]

Aren't CDs always filtered at 20 kHz?

 

[kwkarth]

Well put Nezer.

 

[Nezer]

Quote:

Originally posted by DanG Aren't CDs always filtered at 20 kHz?

It depends on the decoder. This is a general rule, however but it doesn't always *have* to be this way.

For example, I seriously doubt Wadia does a low-pass filter at 20k. But then again, they perform a lot of up-sampling voodoo so a 20k lowpass filter is probably not even a thought. Why go through all that voodoo just to whack a portion of it away? (Maybe a 30k lowpass filter...)

So the question is why don't more people notice how awful CDs are? My guess, everyone has killed thier ears cranking thier amps to '11' therfore making an in-the-head lowpass filter. This is absoultly *not* the recommended way to make a lowpass filter!

Either this or they have just learned to tune it out (I have done this but when I start focusing on it it's all I can hear).

 

[AuralBliss]

This is kinda trivial but thought I heard industry insiders say 32bit was not possible?

 

[kwkarth]

Beyond the dynamic range of any analog circuit.

 

[Nezer]

Quote:

Originally posted by AuralBliss This is kinda trivial but thought I heard industry insiders say 32bit was not possible?

It's possible. Cubase VST/32 uses it and dithers down to 24 or 16 bits on mix down.

The fact that 32 bits is impossible to replicate in the analog world is what makes it perfect for digital. You just can't clip the source! Of course, the flip side is less-qualified engineers will crank the bass up so much that it will clip everywhere else in the signal path. But, they probably wouldn't notice on their V600s anyway.

When we start talking about 32/96k it's slight overkill should shutup all the vinyl-heads about how digital sucks.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nezer Sure, CD's go to 20k (22.05k to be exact), but everything after about 15k is poorly represented. You can work-around this with extensive filtering but you'll never get those frequencies accuratly represented because they just aren't there as a matter of digital sampling. If you can cleary hear 20k then you would also clearly hear how horrible the upper overtones sound particularly in female vocals, violins and other instruments with high-frequency overtones. Even some male vocals sound god-awful (like Sting). As a rule of thumb with digital sampling, *frequencies* can be represented at 1/2 the sample rate but *amplitude* of frequencies are only accuratly sampled at about 1/3rd the sample rate. I personally maintain that the perfect sample rate for human ears is 96k (192 is absolute overkill IMHO). I also think the depth should be 32 bits as the amount of headroom offered makes it nearly impossible to overload. That said 24-bits is a *significant* improvement over 16-bits but 32-bits sets the noise floor so low that only Superman could hear it.

I think cd invents most of what you hear at high frequencys
[call me ignorant if you will]but I still generally enjoy what I
hear,accurate or not,there being no real choice!

In my view analague has still got to be the most accurate but
alas it,s a dead technology in the mainstream hi tech development
stakes.

Still love the noises hifi makes though

 

[setmenu]

Yes but:
What to do?...What to do?...What to do?