Taking the plunge, Woo 5LE or RSA B52 ?

[San Raal]

Hey Tjkurita
 
It was the JJ 300B I listened too in the Audion speaker amp with my K1000, they were fantastic sounding tubes, the bass on the K1000 was superb which isn't reputed to be the best at the bottom end, but both Pendulums bass fest " Salt in the wounds" and Metallica's "Enter Sandman" were simply awesome with these bottles.
 
Do you ever find your amplifier sounds slow and sticky? As back to back with 2A3's and some types of music the 300b's are very rich to my ears. And what is OPT ?
 
Thanks

 

[tjkurita]

Hi San Raal.  I can't really say that my amp ever sounds slow.  It can sound "slower" when I put in a 5R4 rectifier instead of a 5AR4, or when I use a lower resolution 6SN7 (like the  Shuguang CV181Z).  The 5R4 does give it a bit more mellow sound that is less energetic.  Sometimes I like that sound.  I've noticed the 5R4 sounds better at lower volume than a 5AR4.  A 5AR4 rectifier needs more volume in my amp before it opens up. 
 
I like the JJs but one of them went bad.  I plan on replacing them at some point in the future.  But I've got three pairs of matched WE300Bs so I am using those now.  300B does have a very "rich" sound.  that's a good way to describe it.  But that richness can also have a great deal of resolution and tight bass impact if done right.  It is a very capable tube, in my opinion. 
 
For example, I used to own a Cary 300SEI.  It was a great amp for the money, but it was not the definition of high resolution.  And the bass was a bit wooly.  It had a nice midrange.  And good overall balance.  But it was not an "all out" kind of amp.  It is the kind of amp that gives the 300B tube a reputation for limited sound. 
 
I don't feel that my current amp is limited in any way. 
 
OPT is an abbreviation for Output Transformer.  For a transformer-coupled Single Ended Triode design, the OPTs are very important to the sound.  I don't know what kind Woo uses.  My amp has Tango OPTs. 

 

[tjkurita]

Also, don't forget about the driver tube.  The driver has a huge impact on the sound.  Many of the tube guys I speak to say that the 6SN7 is not an exceptionally good sounding tube.  It is just common and versatile.  So the limits of the 300B might also be attributable to the tube driving it, commonly a 6SN7 (on head-fi at least). 

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

Also, don't forget about the driver tube.  The driver has a huge impact on the sound.  Many of the tube guys I speak to say that the 6SN7 is not an exceptionally good sounding tube.  It is just common and versatile.  So the limits of the 300B might also be attributable to the tube driving it, commonly a 6SN7 (on head-fi at least). 

I agree. I bought a pair of TungSol 6SN7GT Black Glass/Round Plates based on recommendations for here in the forum but also bough a pair of TungSol Black Glass/Round Plates 6F8G and in my opinion the former sounds better. My Power tubes are EML 300B Mesh and my rectifiers are EML 5U4G Mesh. I have several different pairs of 6SN7 tubes and to my taste my favorite of those are a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base. I just got today a pair of Mullard ECC33 but I have not try them yet. BTW I also have the Treasure CV181Z and still prefer the Sylvania or the TS 6F8G over them.

 

[sillysally]

 
Quote:

Also, don't forget about the driver tube.  The driver has a huge impact on the sound.  Many of the tube guys I speak to say that the 6SN7 is not an exceptionally good sounding tube.  It is just common and versatile.  So the limits of the 300B might also be attributable to the tube driving it, commonly a 6SN7 (on head-fi at least). 

I also use a matched pair of nos WE300B's (date code 56/26) power tubes in my WA5LE amp. What I have found is by using a matched nos pair of TSBGRP 6SN7GT's (date code august 1942) as driver tubes. I have found the bass to be very nice impact very deep and fast, mids are just wonderful and the extended highs are silk like.
In my WA5LE's PS I use a matched pair of EML 5U4G's (redesigned)

 

[tjkurita]

Quote:

I agree. I bought a pair of TungSol 6SN7GT Black Glass/Round Plates based on recommendations for here in the forum but also bough a pair of TungSol Black Glass/Round Plates 6F8G and in my opinion the former sounds better. My Power tubes are EML 300B Mesh and my rectifiers are EML 5U4G Mesh. I have several different pairs of 6SN7 tubes and to my taste my favorite of those are a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base. I just got today a pair of Mullard ECC33 but I have not try them yet. BTW I also have the Treasure CV181Z and still prefer the Sylvania or the TS 6F8G over them.

Sylvania is my favorite 6SN7 as well.  Particularly the "Chrome Dome" GTAs from the 50's.  I've heard Brimar made the best 6SN7 but I haven't heard them.  I've tried Ken Rad, Tung Sol, various Sylvanias, but I always go back to the Chrome Domes.  Tube synergy is extremely important and it can take a while to find the right mix.  My best tube set goes like this: NOS Sylvania "Big Bottle" 5AR4 rectifiers (matched 1970's), 1950's era Sylvania short bottle chrome top 6SN7s, and re-issue Western Electric 300Bs.  This combination collects all of the best qualities of the various tubes and makes everything click.  I put in a Treasure CV181Z and everything rolls off the soundstage collapses and there is no more resolution.  In many systems the CV181Z is MORE resolving than a Sylvania!  And in my system it is the EXACT OPPOSITE!  Go figure, right?  That's why experimenting with tubes is so important, but realizing when you've got it right is equally important. 

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

Sylvania is my favorite 6SN7 as well.  Particularly the "Chrome Dome" GTAs from the 50's.  I've heard Brimar made the best 6SN7 but I haven't heard them.  I've tried Ken Rad, Tung Sol, various Sylvanias, but I always go back to the Chrome Domes.  Tube synergy is extremely important and it can take a while to find the right mix.  My best tube set goes like this: NOS Sylvania "Big Bottle" 5AR4 rectifiers (matched 1970's), 1950's era Sylvania short bottle chrome top 6SN7s, and re-issue Western Electric 300Bs.  This combination collects all of the best qualities of the various tubes and makes everything click.  I put in a Treasure CV181Z and everything rolls off the soundstage collapses and there is no more resolution.  In many systems the CV181Z is MORE resolving than a Sylvania!  And in my system it is the EXACT OPPOSITE!  Go figure, right?  That's why experimenting with tubes is so important, but realizing when you've got it right is equally important. 

My Sylvania are Brown base, Short Bottle, Chrome top 6SN7WGTA. I just received the Mullard ECC33 (6SN7GT according to the markings) Brown Base/Black Glass last night so tonight another tube roll to try.

 

[DarKu]

Quote:

My Sylvania are Brown base, Short Bottle, Chrome top 6SN7WGTA. I just received the Mullard ECC33 (6SN7GT according to the markings) Brown Base/Black Glass last night so tonight another tube roll to try.

Look forward to your impressions, also I would like a comparison with Treasure CV181z if it's possible

 

[San Raal]

I owned a pair of ECC33 once, I bought them for use with my Mapletree Ultra4SE, which I use exclusivley as a phono stage.
 
The ECC33 if memory serves has a higher heater current than the 6SN7, 0.6A not 0.3A so you need to make sure your amp is capable of supporting this. I was unable to use the tubes as the Mapletree could not support the extra current required.
 
Im using the 1578's which are a great sounding tube, very airy, open with great extended bass. Im meaning to get hold of some TSRP's (after the new amp and wallet recovery has taken place!) to roll into the Woo or EC BA!!!!

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

I owned a pair of ECC83 once, I bought them for use with my Mapletree Ultra4SE, which I use exclusivley as a phono stage.
 
The ECC83 if memory serves has a higher heater current than the 6SN7, 0.6A not 0.3A so you need to make sure your amp is capable of supporting this. I was unable to use the tubes as the Mapletree could not support the extra current required.
 
Im using the 1578's which are a great sounding tube, very airy, open with great extended bass. Im meaning to get hold of some TSRP's (after the new amp and wallet recovery has taken place!) to roll into the Woo or EC BA!!!!

In my case i checked with Jack first regarding compatibility with my WA5-LE. here is his answer:

ECC32/33 work but not the ECC35. I am in the process of collecting all the compatible tubes. If you find something I am not aware of, I like to know about it.

Jack
 

 

[San Raal]

Good stuff, and ofc I meant ECC33 not ECC83

 

[musicman59]

I bought some of the Herbie's Rx Halos for my tubes. I placed them in all of them (EML 300B Mesh, Sylavania BB 6SN7WGT chrome tops and EML 5U4G Mesh). What I am experiencing is when I place them in the driver tubes the bass gets leaner and the actual texture of the sound change. Without them the sound is more magical. Is this normal? I thought the Halo help to improve the sound but it is not happening in my case.

 

[tjkurita]

I find that Herbies "tighten" things and the sound becomes more focused.  I didn't find that the bass lost weight, but there is a textural difference.  I personally think this is an "improvement" but certainly opinions can vary.  For example, maybe what I am hearing can also be interpreted as losing some lushness or texture.  Maybe the tubes you are using just don't need dampening.  There is a definite effect, though, so at least they aren't snake oil.  Have you tried the Herbies with different tubes? 
 
Anyway, I'm sure that the improvements aren't improvements for everyone.  Also, have you tried them on some tubes and not on others? 

 

[musicman59]

Yes. I tried them in my Sylvania 6SN7WGT chrome tops Brown Base and also in my Mullard 6SN7GT (ECC83) Brown Base. The effect in both was similar. I'll give them a try again and also in other driver tubes.

 

[rgs9200m]

My B52 is outstanding with Senn HD800s and Beyer T1s, both in stock form (and HD800s with balanced Complement cables are just awesome). I don't even need speakers anymore.
And I'm really sensitive and have found many headphone+amp combos painful and unacceptable or just weird.
Here's what you don't get: pushy bass or stinging highs or shouty mids or blunted rolled off sound.
When an old CD is tipped up in the highs, I hear full frequency extension but in a very pleasant feel-good sweet/silky way, and that's a neat trick I really appreciate.
When bass is pumped up on a bad recording, it does not pound my ears like some bad car stereo, but has enjoyable, visceral impact.
 
The B52 is one thing I'm not ever giving up, even if Ray comes out with a Mark-2 version.
(I did but some nice vintage tubes in it, though, and an Anaconda Alpha power cord and a Stefan Audio umbilical cable too.
Also, it needs to have about a 45-minute warm up--better with signal passing through it--to get true goodness.)
And I also use an EMM CD source, so that helps too.
But I recommend it w/o hesitation. I think it is a classic audio piece worth every penny.
 
Note again that is sounds awesome with plain-old single-ended phones. HD650s are very nice too, fully fleshed out with that
thick 650 curtain almost gone. It may have been voiced for 600s/650s. I never liked 600s/650s with any other amp.
Grado PS1Ks also do well. The B52 adds very nice (and needed IMHO) bass discipline to to the PS1Ks and the Beyer T1s.
(The PS1K and T1 can get flabby in the bass with some other amps I tried.)
 
Full disclosure: I never heard Woo amps, so I have no opinion on them (duh), but I just am so happy with my B52 I don't need anything better.