[GuineaMcPig]

I had an experience with a piece of classical music this weekend that I think may change the way I listen to music in the future.

Normally, I listen to exclusively pop and rock music...lots of indie stuff that hasn't quite made it into the mainstream but has a unique and well-crafted sound. I also listen to quite a bit of electronic music (not of the drum & bass variety but more ambient). Basically, about 99% of the music I listen to is a fabrication, manufactured track by track in a professional studio.

This general way of producing music is normal to me...I grew up listening to the radio/TV/CDs and heard very little live music, so I never expected nor desired CDs recorded in a studio to sound "real" in the sense that hearing a piece of classical music in person is. I guess you could say I appreciate the artifice of studio manipulation just as much as the actual performances/notes/etc.

Then my buddy played me Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring."

Holy Crap.

I had no idea that orchestral music could sound so vivid, dense, frightening, intense, or "alive." I had listened to enough Bach, Mozart, Brahms, Chopin, etc. to know that this kind of music wasn't for me...it sounded a little to rigid and formulaic to my ears, although the "formula" is certainly way more complicated than that of any of the music that I listen to currently.

But something about "Rite of Spring" really blew me away. I listened to 2 versions, one by the Boston Philharmonic with Brian Zander (sp?) conducting, and another on piano roll (which I did not realize meant "player piano" until some really freaky **** started coming out of my speakers). I enjoyed both versions immensely.

My question is twofold:

1) Is there a definitive performance/recording of this piece (on redbook CD) that I should look for? I know there's a lot of interpretation involved here, but I'm just wondering if there's any consensus among music listeners. Oh, and I'm more interested in a dynamic, vivid performance than audiophile microdetail (my system consists of Grado SR225s, MAD Ear+, and a Denon DCD-1500, so the best stuff out there will probably be lost on my ears).

2) What other pieces/artists would you recommend to someone of my tastes? I'm looking for modern classical that doesn't rely too much on the traditional chord progressions (the "V - I" thing really grates on me). Some other artists/pieces of music I enjoy are:

My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
Bjork - Homogenic
Radiohead - OK Computer and Kid A
Fennesz - Endless Summer
Aphex Twin - SAW2
Glenn Branca - The Ascension

The only other experience I really have with modern classical is Debussy (whom I enjoy immensely, but don't know much beyond "Clair de Lune" (sp?)), and Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (if you would even call this classical).

So, let the initiation begin. What do I need to hear? What, based on my tastes, should I avoid?

Thanks for the help!

~Jordan

 

[PSmith08]

Well, start with Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, which can be called post-Romantic and probably Modern in its own way.

However, and more traditionally speaking, Schoenberg, Webern, and Berg (which is to say, the Second Viennese School) should be a good starting-point for modern music. Then move out from there.

 

[calaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuineaMcPig I had an experience with a piece of classical music this weekend that I think may change the way I listen to music in the future. Normally, I listen to exclusively pop and rock music...lots of indie stuff that hasn't quite made it into the mainstream but has a unique and well-crafted sound. I also listen to quite a bit of electronic music (not of the drum & bass variety but more ambient). Basically, about 99% of the music I listen to is a fabrication, manufactured track by track in a professional studio. This general way of producing music is normal to me...I grew up listening to the radio/TV/CDs and heard very little live music, so I never expected nor desired CDs recorded in a studio to sound "real" in the sense that hearing a piece of classical music in person is. I guess you could say I appreciate the artifice of studio manipulation just as much as the actual performances/notes/etc. Then my buddy played me Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring." Holy Crap. I had no idea that orchestral music could sound so vivid, dense, frightening, intense, or "alive." I had listened to enough Bach, Mozart, Brahms, Chopin, etc. to know that this kind of music wasn't for me...it sounded a little to rigid and formulaic to my ears, although the "formula" is certainly way more complicated than that of any of the music that I listen to currently. But something about "Rite of Spring" really blew me away. I listened to 2 versions, one by the Boston Philharmonic with Brian Zander (sp?) conducting, and another on piano roll (which I did not realize meant "player piano" until some really freaky **** started coming out of my speakers). I enjoyed both versions immensely. My question is twofold: 1) Is there a definitive performance/recording of this piece (on redbook CD) that I should look for? I know there's a lot of interpretation involved here, but I'm just wondering if there's any consensus among music listeners. Oh, and I'm more interested in a dynamic, vivid performance than audiophile microdetail (my system consists of Grado SR225s, MAD Ear+, and a Denon DCD-1500, so the best stuff out there will probably be lost on my ears).

my fave (for the interpretation, not for the sound) is Muti/Philadelphia. Check this thread
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ht=rite+spring
for other, more expert, opinions.

Quote:

2) What other pieces/artists would you recommend to someone of my tastes? I'm looking for modern classical that doesn't rely too much on the traditional chord progressions (the "V - I" thing really grates on me). Some other artists/pieces of music I enjoy are: My Bloody Valentine - Loveless Miles Davis - Bitches Brew Bjork - Homogenic Radiohead - OK Computer and Kid A Fennesz - Endless Summer Aphex Twin - SAW2 Glenn Branca - The Ascension The only other experience I really have with modern classical is Debussy (whom I enjoy immensely, but don't know much beyond "Clair de Lune" (sp?)), and Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (if you would even call this classical). So, let the initiation begin. What do I need to hear? What, based on my tastes, should I avoid? Thanks for the help! ~Jordan

There is a great Debussy sampler from DG
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...sical&n=507846
you can't really go wrong with this one. For earthier, more energetic music in the style of the Rite, I suggest you try some Bartok. Here are two great threads started by tyson
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100264
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112715
my personal Bartok orchestral favourites are the Piano Concertos (Anda/Fricsay is probably my number one choice), but there is a lot to be explored in there: "Miracolous Mandarin", "Concert for Orchestra", and what I believe is the greatest "modern" opera: "Bluebeard's Castle"

Going contemporary you may want to try some Ligeti, especially if you are a Stanley Kubrik fan...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...ce&s=classical
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...ce&s=classical

 

[calaf]

and BTW there is some classical classical music which does feel
Quote:

vivid, dense, frightening, intense, or "alive."

after you listen to some XX century music, try some late Beethoven works like the jazzy piano sonata Op 111
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...ce&s=classical
or string quartets Op 130/133 and 131
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...ce&s=classical
coming as I did from a contemporary music background, you may find yourself thinking "this guy had done it all already!"

 

[Doc Sarvis]

If you liked the Rite of Spring, I would suggest that your next steps be in the direction of these 20th-century composers:

1. Shostakovich (try the 1st, 5th, 7th, or 10th symphonies)
2. Prokofiev (try the Alexander Nevsky Cantata, or the 3rd Piano Concerto)
3. Debussy (the "Rite" was composed in a time when Stravinsky was being heavily influenced by Debussy; try "La Mer")
4. Bartok (try the Concerto for Orchestra).

These will be good first steps. The problem (or opportunity!) with 20th century classical music is that there is no one style. Each of these recommendations represent tonal music (the works of Schoenberg, Webern and Berg may be rough sledding for you at first; they represent a relatively short-lived style called serialism which was a complete break with the past), with the kind of dissonance and fury that attracted you to "The Rite".

You should also check out Stravinsky's Firebird and Petrushka - different from The Rite, but very interesting.

 

[zumaro]

Oliver Messiaen - Turangalila Symphony is an obvious choice - sort of a quasi-mystical lurid variant on the Rite
Bela Bartok - The 3 Piano Concertos, particularly the first two are high in the aural density and rhythmic violence stakes. Try also The Miraculous Mandarin.
Silvestre Revueltas - Sensemaya (try Salonen and the LA Philharmonic for a good collection of his music) would give you a Latin American variant on the concept.
Dmitri Shostakovich - not obviously Rite like, but either the 8th or 4th Symphonies can be very damaging to ones psyche by the time they have battered you for an hour or so.
The high priest of musical aural assault has to be Iannis Xenakis - not much in the way of tune or harmony left but what other music written sounds quite as ....well .... violent. There is a collection out on Col Legno that has orchestral works like Ata and Jonchaies that resemble the Rite in their sheer density of sound and rhythmic intensity. Weirdly enjoyable, particularly if you don't like your neighbours

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuineaMcPig What other pieces/artists would you recommend to someone of my tastes? I'm looking for modern classical that doesn't rely too much on the traditional chord progressions (the "V - I" thing really grates on me). Some other artists/pieces of music I enjoy are: My Bloody Valentine - Loveless Miles Davis - Bitches Brew Bjork - Homogenic Radiohead - OK Computer and Kid A Fennesz - Endless Summer Aphex Twin - SAW2 Glenn Branca - The Ascension The only other experience I really have with modern classical is Debussy (whom I enjoy immensely, but don't know much beyond "Clair de Lune" (sp?)), and Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (if you would even call this classical). ~Jordan

Since nobody is really weighing in with post-WWII suggestions, I will. And, to start with, yes, Reich is classical music. He has followed in the trend of Minimalism, ranging from Morton Feldman to Terry Riley. Believe it or not, while "maximal" or "totalist", Glenn Branca derives from the same source. If you like Reich, you may like John Adams.

But, back to Europe, after Schoenberg, the first wave of post-war serialists were really Penderecki and Ligeti (both still alive, I believe). Powerful, yet often frightful music. Pierre Boulez was a student of Messaien, and carries some of his tradtion forward. Schnittke is another giant. Stockhausen and Xenakis are also essential listening in this area. Perhpas my favorite living European composer is Arvo Part, who combines minimalism with medieval chant.

For the states, Elliot Carter (well over 90) is the greatest living American composer (unless he died).

I'll mention Morton Feldman again, just becuase I love his stuff so much.

If you like Reich, you may also like Phil Niblock, Charmelagne Palestine, La MOnte YOung.

Henry Flynt is also very unique, combining American hillbilly/Aplachian roots music with Indian Ragas -- more avante-garde than classical, I suppose.

 

[Michael G.]

Le sacre? I can't say which is the "best", but try to listen to Gergiev's rendition of 'The Rite Of Spring' on the Philips label. Animated, intense, and a great-sounding recording. More music that is "vivid, dense, frightening, alive"? I would recommend that you check out 'Boulez Conducts Varese' on the DG label. And I would recommend the "Third Stream" compositions of Gunther Schuller. 'Twelve Studies On Themes Of Paul Klee" is one of Schuller's orchestral masterpieces. GM Recordings Inc. is Schuller's own label, and you should browse the "classical" catalog there for more exciting stuff. www.gmrecordings.com.

 

[zhentil]

Schnittke's viola concerto is absolutely terrifying.

It should be noted, however, that I firmly believe that it is difficult to understand progressives without understanding what they progressed from.

 

[mbhaub]

Not much of this is modern classical by me definition. Rite is nearly 100 years old!
Most truly modern scares people off (and rightfully so in many cases). But if you want really modern, recent music, try:

Gavin Bryars: The Sinking of the Titanic
Valentin Silvestrov: Symphony No. 5 and the Requiem for Larissa
Michael Daugherty: UFO or Hell's Angles
E. Salonen: LA Variations
Humphrey Searle: Symphonies (will terrify you)
Corigliano: Symphonies 1 & 2
Berio: Sinfonia

If you need a softer approach: try Jennifer Higdon (COncerto for Orchestra, Blue Cathedral).

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

But something about "Rite of Spring" really blew me away. I listened to 2 versions, one by the Boston Philharmonic with Brian Zander (sp?) conducting, and another on piano roll (which I did not realize meant "player piano" until some really freaky **** started coming out of my speakers). I enjoyed both versions immensely. My question is twofold: 1) Is there a definitive performance/recording of this piece (on redbook CD) that I should look for? I know there's a lot of interpretation involved here, but I'm just wondering if there's any consensus among music listeners. Oh, and I'm more interested in a dynamic, vivid performance than audiophile microdetail (my system consists of Grado SR225s, MAD Ear+, and a Denon DCD-1500, so the best stuff out there will probably be lost on my ears). 2) What other pieces/artists would you recommend to someone of my tastes? I'm looking for modern classical that doesn't rely too much on the traditional chord progressions (the "V - I" thing really grates on me). Some other artists/pieces of music I enjoy are: My Bloody Valentine - Loveless Miles Davis - Bitches Brew Bjork - Homogenic Radiohead - OK Computer and Kid A Fennesz - Endless Summer Aphex Twin - SAW2 Glenn Branca - The Ascension The only other experience I really have with modern classical is Debussy (whom I enjoy immensely, but don't know much beyond "Clair de Lune" (sp?)), and Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (if you would even call this classical). So, let the initiation begin. What do I need to hear? What, based on my tastes, should I avoid? Thanks for the help! ~Jordan

Art: Sir Simon Rattle, conducting the Birmingham Symphony Orchestra on the EMI label, does a fantastic job with Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" as well as the "Firebird Suite".

You should check out Philip Glass - Mishima is a good one to start with. Explore the post Romantic (last 100 years or so) era, based on your tastes.