[blacknwhite]

 
Hi everyone,
 
i’m fairly new to this forum and i’m a new member. I have a few questions and any help and/or advice is greatly apreciated.I ask these questions because i think there are a lot of the younger people who have this “problem” also.
 
here are few facts of me :
 
-i live in belgium ( so any tips about good stores to buy headphones are really helpful)
-I listen mostly to rock, electronic and alternative
-sometimes i also listen to RnB,soul and classical
-I got my first ipod video in 2006 ,then i got an ipod touch in 2009
and later got an iphone 3GS so i have been upgrading a lot.
 
i have used the beats by dre studios for almost two years now and after auditioning other more neutral headphones i just think the studios have way to much bass.
After reading on this forum i have learned so much about headphones in general and i have come to this conclusion.
 
Either i buy the sennheiser hd 650 for 280€-350€ and buy an oké amp/dac solution (E7/E9 combo) for around 150€,wich i think is a good combination to start from.
Or i go top of the line and buy me a HD 800 or T1
 
price:
HD 650 + cheap amp/dac = 500$
beyerdynamic T1 +A1 = minimum 1780€
HD 800 + burson audio HA 160D =minimum 2000€
 
I,who just came from the studios will already notice a big diffrence with just the HD 650 + E7/E9 settup,but do the big guys really deliver?
So what i really want to know is if the two last settups really deliver that 1280€-1500€ extra in audio quality.
 
A few extra questions :
 
-What do you guys think of T1 vs the HD800 for my taste of music?
(yes i know there are already lot’s of threads on this but it never hurts to ask)
-What if i went with the HD 650 and E7/E9 and wanted to upgrade after say,two years,for how much could i sell the HD 650 and where can i sell these (other way then head-fi or ebay)
-Can the E7/E9 be used to drive the HD 800 or T1 properly
-How much does your source matter?. Analog vs digital (ipod rca out vs ipod line out)
 
[size=10.0pt]Thanks for helping me out here.[/size]

 

[Austin Morrow]

Hmm. Just my opinion, but the T1's seem more energetic to me and will fit your style of music a lot better. And if here to go with the Hd800, why would you get the Burson Audio HA-160D? Do you really need the pre amp? If you don't need the pre amp, just get the HA-160DS, it has the DAC and headphone amp, minus the pre amp.

 

[Dubstep Girl]

you will love hd 650s, get a decent amp for them though to get the besst of them.
 
or you can get the T1 and either the A1 amp or a WA2.

 

[Mad Dude]

Quote:

[...]
Either i buy the sennheiser hd 650 for 280€-350€ and buy an oké amp/dac solution (E7/E9 combo) for around 150€,wich i think is a good combination to start from.
[...]

 
Forget about using the HD650 with a cheap amp. It needs a good amp to really show its potential.
 
My recommendation: Get a Senn HD600 (better suited for the music you listen to than HD650) or Beyer DT880 with a decent SS amp or a DAC/amp combo (audio-gd has some good stuff price-performance wise). If you're not satisfied you can still upgrade to one of the flagship models later.
 
 
 
Quote:

[...]
-How much does your source matter?. Analog vs digital (ipod rca out vs ipod line out)
[...]

 
While you can use an iPod (or another DAP) as a source via line-out, I'd not recommend doing so, especially not with revealing headphones such as the T1 or HD800. A dedicated DAC will clearly show an improvement (you'd have to get an iPod dock with SPDIF out).

 

[blacknwhite]

 
Some more questions:
 
The HD 600 retail here for 245€ (320$), is this a good price?
Do they work out well with the E7/E9 or do you really need a more expensive amp/dac system (like shown below) because I have read the E7/E9 combo outperformed several 600$ and lower costing amp/dac systems?
 
Another thing to mention is that I will mostly be using Istuff (iPod video, touch 2g, and iPod nano 5g) to playback my music and sometimes my iMac (27”2010 model) any suggestion on dac/amp systems for a reasonable price would be great.
 
One last thing, what would you advice me to buy (money isn’t that much of a problem, I just need to know that I get what I’m paying for)?
 
A: stay on the cheap and buy an HD 600 and fiio E7/E9 (=400€)
B: HD 6XX+ onkyo ND-S1 + V-dac II + V-can II (= +- 800€)
C: burson audio HA 160D and T1 (= 2000€)
 
All of these systems have their strengths and weaknesses but this is how I see it :
 
A something oké to start with.
B good quality system with good headphones, so when I would upgrade to the T1, I can still use this system.
C best of the best and great to start with.
 
I'm thinking of the HA 160D is because it’s a good all-rounder that can be used in a lot of ways, if I would make the big step and buy a 2000€ system I’d rather be prepared for the future and not having to upgrade in at least five years.
At the moment I lean towards the higher end systems but are they really worth the extra 400€-1500€ ?
 
thanks

 

[Anathallo]

What's your source going to be?
 
No sense in going top of the line if you're working out of the ipod's mini jack.  I think you should iron out what level of source you're going to be using before matching amp/headphones.
 
If you are going with the burson, don't bother with the preamp.  Austin's right - get the DS.

 

[Rayzee]

I would not be so sure about buying new, I'd suggest buying used for your first products in the classifieds. You can always save money for your next upgrade, which is an inevitable thing in this hobby.
 
Everybody seems to rave about the Sennheiser HD650 and personally, I don't like them quite that much due to it's rather dull sound signature. People suggested amps will solve this, I used a E7/E9 for them, didn't like it, upgraded to a DACport, still didn't like it, upgraded to a Yulong D100 then realised I still didn't like it that much when I compared it to my other headphones. I firmly stood by my rule of never spending more on an AMP then on a headphone itself, so I sold them and kept what I personally liked most, which was my AD1000PRM. I do not recommend the HD650 for rock, electronic and alternative.
 
-What do you guys think of T1 vs the HD800 for my taste of music?
Don't think there is allot of users who have listened to both, and those who have, have posted reviews / comparisons so look there instead I'd say.
 
-What if i went with the HD 650 and E7/E9 and wanted to upgrade after say,two years,for how much could i sell the HD 650 and where can i sell these (other way then head-fi or ebay)
I'd say you'd get back £150 minimum in the UK Ebay.
 
-Can the E7/E9 be used to drive the HD 800 or T1 properly?
Properly as in utilising the headphones potential? Nope.

 

[B-Dawk20]

This is just me and I will probably get heckled for this but that is fine. I do think you should get the HD650 and the e7+e9 combo. I just think it will better for you as an audio person to be able to appreciate and evaluate equipment. 2k is a big investment for something that could of satisfied you at a third of the price. Everybody of course is different and I'm not saying you are totally incable of truly loving something like the HD800 and some decked out equipment. I just think it takes a well trained pallet to get their money's worth of a 500 dollar meal if you know what I mean. This is why I am taking my audiophile journey from the bottom up.

Just my two cents though, and I hope whatever you choose, you love it and have many happy hours with it.

 

[blacknwhite]

source : alac, aac and some mp3 (320 Kbps)
All via 30 pin dock connector to either optical or or coaxial (onkyo ND-S1) --> dac/amp   --> headphones
Anathallo, I guess the HA 160DS is indeed better for my needs.
Rayzee, thanks for clarifying a few things out for me.
B-Dawk20, great advice I might just try that.

 

[blacknwhite]

 
I guess I will start at the bottom of the audiophile chain and then go higher if needed.
So after analyzing my options it all came to this : AKG K702 or Sennheiser HD 650
 
They both cost 300€ and are in the same class of audio quality
If I went with the HD 650 I had to spend at least another 500€ on a reasonably good DAC/AMP so I ordered the AKG K702 because these can be powered directly from my iMac and iPods.
 
This will be my first step at good audio, but in the future I will upgrade with the E17(just announced) and the rumored E15(= E9 replacement) + better headphones.
 
Anyway
Thanks for the help and advice you guys gave me. It really helped me decide what I needed.

 

[B-Dawk20]

Oh whoa my friend, I guess im sorry to spoil your day but the K701/702 is harder to drive than the HD650. It is known to be a bit stubborn with the amps that do it justice and get it the right flow of power. I mean, they both arent cupcakes but the HD650 is known to scale well and can do some real good with just the fiio e7+e9 for a starter set up. I dont know much about the recommended low end amps for the 701 but the options shrink quite a bit. Sorry to rain on your parade like this, just thought I'd let you know that the 701s impedance is very deceiving as discussed by a lot of headfiers.

Now they could sound servicable out of the imac, ive never heard of anyone say otherwise, but I just could not imagine it from normal logic. The ipod is a no go for sure though.

 

[blacknwhite]

 
well, the iMac has a pretty decent sound card and power output, so I think that should work, iPod, I don’t know. I will listen to these with iMac and IPod first and if they aren’t up to the task I will buy an amp/dac (probably fiio E9/E17) in a few weeks. So I guess that won’t be much of a problem.
 
anyway, I’m off celebrating new year
have a good day everybody

 

[NinjaSquirt]

Quote:

-What do you guys think of T1 vs the HD800 for my taste of music?
(yes i know there are already lot’s of threads on this but it never hurts to ask)
-What if i went with the HD 650 and E7/E9 and wanted to upgrade after say,two years,for how much could i sell the HD 650 and where can i sell these (other way then head-fi or ebay)
-Can the E7/E9 be used to drive the HD 800 or T1 properly
-How much does your source matter?. Analog vs digital (ipod rca out vs ipod line out)

If your only source is an iPod, don't both with the T1 or the HD800 or even the HD650. Get a closed headphone. If it's for home use, stay away from the HD800 for rock. Go with the HD650, it's good, it's cheaper, and has great resale value. A E7/E9 can drive an HD800 or a T1, just not properly. Again, if you're only source is an iPod, your source doesn't matter because an iPod doesn't sound great or amazing anyway you put it. As for a home setup, it matters to a point where you have a good clean DAC and not one from a onboard sound card or an iPod. If you want a handle on what a good clean DAC is: Cambridge Audio DacMagic (i.e. about $500-600 worth of DAC).

 

[Austin Morrow]

Quote:

Oh whoa my friend, I guess im sorry to spoil your day but the K701/702 is harder to drive than the HD650. It is known to be a bit stubborn with the amps that do it justice and get it the right flow of power. I mean, they both arent cupcakes but the HD650 is known to scale well and can do some real good with just the fiio e7+e9 for a starter set up. I dont know much about the recommended low end amps for the 701 but the options shrink quite a bit. Sorry to rain on your parade like this, just thought I'd let you know that the 701s impedance is very deceiving as discussed by a lot of headfiers.
Now they could sound servicable out of the imac, ive never heard of anyone say otherwise, but I just could not imagine it from normal logic. The ipod is a no go for sure though.

 


Quote:

 
well, the iMac has a pretty decent sound card and power output, so I think that should work, iPod, I don’t know. I will listen to these with iMac and IPod first and if they aren’t up to the task I will buy an amp/dac (probably fiio E9/E17) in a few weeks. So I guess that won’t be much of a problem.
 
anyway, I’m off celebrating new year
have a good day everybody

I've tried my AKG Q701 with both the iPod and the iMac. Not very loud to say the least, and aren't driven very well.
 

 

[B-Dawk20]

well, the iMac has a pretty decent sound card and power output, so I think that should work, iPod, I don’t know. I will listen to these with iMac and IPod first and if they aren’t up to the task I will buy an amp/dac (probably fiio E9/E17) in a few weeks. So I guess that won’t be much of a problem.

anyway, I’m off celebrating new year
have a good day everybody

still...they are just not easy to drive. Regardless, get em, test them out, and then come back here for amp advice. Get one thats known to be synergetic with them. Enjoy dude.