[Gwarmi]

 
 Just tested the T1 with an iPhone S - Hmm, it's better than I thought on full volume - still nowhere near as competent as a desktop setup though.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

 
 Everybody needs a...
 
   - Audiophilleo!

 
 

Great! Your Audiophilleo gets its own isolation-vibration block treatment? 

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

Great! Your Audiophilleo gets its own isolation-vibration block treatment? 

 Nah not mine this one - just freshly plucked from Google - mine piggy backs off the Rega directly - interesting to
 note though - had issues with the M-DAC and had to run an SPDIF cable from the Coax end of the AP1 - it worked
 in the end!
 

 

[VictorHalgaard]

 
 Just tested the T1 with an iPhone S - Hmm, it's better than I thought on full volume - still nowhere near as competent as a desktop setup though.

Then maybe you can understand my canundrum when you keep in mind I dont own an actual desktop setup, nor have I ever really heard the t1 from a good full size amp, just from a cheap SE amp and an amp that's not supposed to run SE.
I've owned two desktop amps in the past, before I got te t1 and neither of them really impressed me. As said I did hear a difference, just not enough to justify its size compared to balanced out of the ibasso PB2/DB2 I owned then...

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

Then maybe you can understand my canundrum when you keep in mind I dont own an actual desktop setup, nor have I ever really heard the t1 from a good full size amp, just from a cheap SE amp and an amp that's not supposed to run SE.
I've owned two desktop amps in the past, before I got te t1 and neither of them really impressed me. As said I did hear a difference, just not enough to justify its size compared to balanced out of the ibasso PB2/DB2 I owned then...

 Then there lies potential - build the best portable rig you can muster, you mentioned the Triad - add some decent
 interconnects and you'll find a reasonable result.
 
 The same dilemma however remains - you have not mentioned your source material, this is the most crucial
 aspect.
 
 

 

[Kanashimu]

I've always thought that there was practically no appreciable gains in upgrading amps/DACs. Then again, I haven't owned many desktop amps. If the amp can go loud enough and doesn't suck - then you're most of the way there already.

 

[VictorHalgaard]

 Then there lies potential - build the best portable rig you can muster, you mentioned the Triad - add some decent
 interconnects and you'll find a reasonable result.
 
 The same dilemma however remains - you have not mentioned your source material, this is the most crucial
 aspect.
 
 

Well, my source material preferably wave/alac which would usually be cd standard 44khz 16bit 1136kbps, some bands I only have as mp3 but then others like the explorations in time and space cd I have in 196khz, 32bit 8360kbps. But yea, primarily lossless files...

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

Well, my source material preferably wave/alac which would usually be cd standard 44khz 16bit 1136kbps, some bands I only have as mp3 but then others like the explorations in time and space cd I have in 196khz, 32bit 8360kbps. But yea, primarily lossless files...

 
 Exactly my point - you're assuming one great fallacy - all recordings are created equal - you're merely talking about the technical
 extraction of 'said unknown' recordings.
 
 Here's an example - let's assume for one second that we're both die hard live acoustic guitar blues heads.
 
 I'll take Clapton's Unplugged in 256kbps MP3 - you can source any blues album you want in any format you wish eg, Wav, Flac,.
 
 Do you reckon your choice would blitz my lowly bit rate of this masterful recording for the genre on any given nice rig for transparency and true reproduction
 ?
 
 Probably not.
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

 Exactly my point - you're assuming one great fallacy - all recordings are created equal - you're merely talking about the technical
 extraction of 'said unknown' recordings.
 
 Here's an example - let's assume for one second that we're both die hard live acoustic guitar blues heads.
 
 I'll take Clapton's Unplugged in 256kbps MP3 - you can source any blues album you want in any format you wish eg, Wav, Flac,.
 

There is more than one way to look at this. Yes there are some fabulous recordings, Clapton Unplugged is an example I often use when showing off my headphones to friends. That isn't the problem, the disappointment comes from finding out that well over half of your music, be it lossless, CD, whatever, is poorly recorded. On my monitors and phones like the DT880 I can tell if a track is recorded well or not and a good DAC only highlights this. On phones like the T1, D7000 and other colored (yet fun) headphones it's much harder to tell and for that very reason music sounds better. The trouble however is that it's harder to discern a good source with a colored headphone and so we have what the OP experiences in thinking there is no gain to be had from an expensive source.
 
It's more attractive to get a nice colored headphone run from a soundcard or small hybrid than it is to get a neutral headphone with a good clean amp and clean analogue source.
 
I'm kinda split in my music listening; I want to hear the song as intended without coloration from a good source, but at the same time I want all my music to sound good and a colored phone gives me that. The more colored a headphone the less the source and music files actually matter, be that a good thing or not is for the individual to decide.
 

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

There is more than one way to look at this. Yes there are some fabulous recordings, Clapton Unplugged is an example I often use when showing off my headphones to friends. That isn't the problem, the disappointment comes from finding out that well over half of your music, be it lossless, CD, whatever, is poorly recorded. On my monitors and phones like the DT880 I can tell if a track is recorded well or not and a good DAC only highlights this. On phones like the T1, D7000 and other colored (yet fun) headphones it's much harder to tell and for that very reason music sounds better. The trouble however is that it's harder to discern a good source with a colored headphone and so we have what the OP experiences in thinking there is no gain to be had from an expensive source.
 
It's more attractive to get a nice colored headphone run from a soundcard or small hybrid than it is to get a neutral headphone with a good clean amp and clean analogue source.
 
I'm kinda split in my music listening; I want to hear the song as intended without coloration from a good source, but at the same time I want all my music to sound good and a colored phone gives me that. The more colored a headphone the less the source and music files actually matter, be that a good thing or not is for the individual to decide.
 

 A few days ago I had the opportunity to hear a RSA Dark Star being fed by an M-DAC with a DT880, Q701 and HD800 at the other end - that was one hot
 sizzly ride! Very sibilant across some material concerning tracks that previously had shown no such sharpness on more forgiving, less transparent setups.
 
 As you pointed out, only the most warm and forgiving headphones seemed to make the most of that rig for sustainable, pleasant play back. HD650 and
 LCD2/3.
 
 Depends on the colored headphone though when it comes to source and material - my PS1000 is a big pot of rainbow coloration but anyone giving it
 a go will quickly spot a warmish, sluggish low resolution source - or a harsh source, I find it's also quite responsive to amps and various interconnects.
 
 Ok, it's not picky and as transparent as a HD800 but for a colored headphone, it continues to surprise me - yes there's some forgiving nature there
 but if the recording is bad it will still holler in your ear.
 
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

 A few days ago I had the opportunity to hear a RSA Dark Star being fed by an M-DAC with a DT880, Q701 and HD800 at the other end - that was one hot
 sizzly ride! Very sibilant across some material concerning tracks that previously had shown no such sharpness on more forgiving, less transparent setups.
 
 As you pointed out, only the most warm and forgiving headphones seemed to make the most of that rig for sustainable, pleasant play back. HD650 and
 LCD2/3.
 
 Depends on the colored headphone though when it comes to source and material - my PS1000 is a big pot of rainbow coloration but anyone giving it
 a go will quickly spot a warmish, sluggish low resolution source - or a harsh source, I find it's also quite responsive to amps and various interconnects.
 
 Ok, it's not picky and as transparent as a HD800 but for a colored headphone, it continues to surprise me - yes there's some forgiving nature there
 but if the recording is bad it will still holler in your ear.
 

 

All you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that some headphones (PS1000?) are more transparent and the sound of the source, be it warm etc will show through. Does a transparent headphone however relate better to the music being played through them; is a transparent headphone and good source better than an opaque headphone on a cheap source?
 
If I were to change these rather meaningless words into facts and figures I would say transparency is the result of an elevated (above neutral) treble. Therefor breaking down what you're saying it would read; DT880, PS1000 and HD800 were very sibilant due to their elevated treble.
 
Is there any point to an expensive rig that exposes all these flaws when the majority of music sounds bad over a colored headphone from a cheap source? And back to the topic, should there be a huge difference between an E11 and an iPod on a colored phone? I think not.

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

 

All you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that some headphones (PS1000?) are more transparent and the sound of the source, be it warm etc will show through. Does a transparent headphone however relate better to the music being played through them; is a transparent headphone and good source better than an opaque headphone on a cheap source?
 
If I were to change these rather meaningless words into facts and figures I would say transparency is the result of an elevated (above neutral) treble. Therefor breaking down what you're saying it would read; DT880, PS1000 and HD800 were very sibilant due to their elevated treble.
 
Is there any point to an expensive rig that exposes all these flaws when the majority of music sounds bad over a colored headphone from a cheap source? And back to the topic, should there be a huge difference between an E11 and an iPod on a colored phone? I think not.

 Actually that's interesting - having spent some time with a Signature Pro and my own pair of SR80i's - I can honestly say that I prefer them straight out of the iPod.
 
 Hooking up the E11 just makes both of those headphones sound muddy and slow - particularly the Signature Pro, it was quite unpleasant.

 

[VictorHalgaard]

Hmm...I can definitely follow what both of you are saying. And I must say my hifi filosophy is kinda' this: I want the music to sound the best possible! No matter the price (if I can afford it) and so on. Fx. Denon D7000 with the mods mine has is mindblowing with electronic music, my cusom HF2 is fantastic for metal, and the T1 is amazing for symphonic metal, classical, and is also just an amazing allrounder.
I find that the T1 is such a good allrounder, because it has incredibly good resolution and clarity, and very natural - but with a warm tint that makes it more pleasant to listen to than the DT series, which when I compared them just seemed cold, clinical and boring to listen to. To me its like the way TopGear describes new Lamborghinis: They are too precise, too good and though they are technically amazing, you just miss the old ones that actively tried to kill you everytime you drive them. In the same sense, I found that for a fraction of the T1's price i could get a headphone with roughly the same amount of detail, and which (maybe?) stayed much more true to the original sound of the music, however the T1 had the resolution and the musicality. In the sense that with the DT880 i felt like I was mixing the original tape of the record, but with the T1 I felt more like I was listening to the finished product after the mix and editing. Its possible that had you been standing in the room when Jorn Lande recorded Burn Your Flame, or when Gods Kitchen created White Spirit, i would have sounded like what the DT880 gives you, but the T1 takes you to the stage when Jorn plays the final product, and you wont be able to resist jumping around banging your head, and D7000 will take you to Cyberdogs store in the crypts of Camden Town and let you feel the ground shaking and see the flourocent robots rocking out to the music. And I mean all respect to 100% neutrality and transparency, assuming thats what fx. the DT880 has and not just another form off coloration, but if the music sounds better with the T1, be it out of coloration, or because thats actually how its supposed to sound (it is possible), then I'm going to stick with the T1.
This may all sound like some psychedelic trip, but if the music can blow my mind like that, take me to another world, rather than just to some musty recording studio, then why not let it? I hope  I've not lost you
 
This apparently leaves me in a situation where either A) The headphone is not very amp critical, and the sound doesn't differ that much between different amp with the same type of topology B) I just haven't heard any of the truly mindblowing amps yet, or C) I need to get better cables and source.
 
What this means to me, is that I should just get a solid state amp that has the resolution, neutrality and power need, and if I want radical change in sound, i should go buy a tube amp or something instead, instead of expecting a SS amp to do a tube amps job, i.e. having a unique sound or "flavour" if you will, instead of being dead-neutral and just providing driving power, which in itself will improve a headphone if it really needed the power...
 
Hmm...Long babbling, but I hope you can somewhat follow me....
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Gwarmi]

 
 
 The thought popped into my head as I read your big spiel and then you said it - tubes!
 
 WA2 or WA6-SE (this one will have more PRaT - love that acronym) with a bunch of tubes and even some cap and power supply modifications.
 
 

 

[VictorHalgaard]

I think my real problem is that at the same time I want to do that, and also have my rig be neutral...Because that's somehow what my subconsciousness me is the best (a neutral rig) even though the rigs that I've heard that were supposedly completely neutral were boring to me.
 
Anyway...I really need to go to Jaben's store in singapore or something, so I can just try all the things I could possibly want to, because I'm starting to get absolutely clueless as to what to get...
 
I thought of getting the ALO Continental, but the bass roll of at 40hz is keeping me from getting it. Whatever. I need to make up my mind...
 
Amps that could be my final amps:
SR-71b (in balanced mode (i need plugs))
iBasso PB2 (since it has more treble focus and seems more neutral/transparent)
Triad Audio L3 (Well...Its a portable amp on steroids, or a desktop amp with a battery)
JustAudio AHA-120 (Should be very good(obvious since its a class A amp))
Alo RX mk 3